Civvy Freighters Surviving Missile Strikes

[Kirkhill]

Houthi Missiles Do Far More Damage to Trade Than to Actual Ships - BNN Bloomberg

Houthi attacks on merchant shipping in and around the southern Red Sea are causing widespread disruption to global trade — but the damage to individual vessels has so far been relatively light.

www.bnnbloomberg.ca

(Bloomberg) -- Houthi attacks on merchant shipping in and around the southern Red Sea are causing widespread disruption to global trade — but the damage to individual vessels has so far been relatively light.

Since mid-November, at least 16 ships have suffered direct strikes by Houthi drones or missiles, according to data from intelligence firm Ambrey Analytics. All were able to continue their voyages under their own propulsion. Images released by the Indian Navy on Thursday following another incident showed scarring and burn marks — but nothing that would hinder navigation.

“There have been no reports of significant damage or any crew injury as a consequence of the several attacks,” said Mark O’Neil, Chief Executive Officer of Columbia Group, one of the world’s top ship-management companies. “We do not believe that this is by accident but that it rather suggests that the Houthis are being very careful and deliberate.”

Contributing factors? My guesses.

Very big ships. Heavily compartmentalized (Maersk Triple Es carry 18,000 40 foot sea cans - each one a separate watertight compartment). Small crews (13 for a Triple E). Attacks from above detonating above the waterline.

Of the 16 ships, six had a status of “in casualty or repairing” while the remainder were sailing or had recently arrived at ports, making it hard to discern whether they would be repaired immediately or later.

 

[Kirkhill]

Related via this comment by a columnist who commanded four ships for the RN,

a fisheries protection vessel (1200 tons, heavy steel hull, single variable pitch propellor, no bow thruster), a Hunt class assigned to Northern Ireland patrol duties (600 tons, GRP hull, twin fixed pitch screw, single bow thruster – same class as HMS Chiddingfold), an ice breaker (7000 tons, heavy steel, single controllable pitch screw, bow and stern thrusters) and a frigate (5000 tons, light steel, twin fixed pitch screw – masses of power but no bow thruster).

The two ships built as civilian vessels – the fishery protection and the ice breaker – were a delight to drive primarily because they had much thicker hulls and could take a bump without being damaged. Warship design is a trade off between protection, speed and manoeuvrability and, in recent decades, ships have traded hull thickness for agility and speed making them particularly vulnerable to slow speed impacts. The days when warships had thickly armoured hulls are long gone.
There is an interesting side conversation to be had about how wise this now is given the way some merchant vessels have effectively brushed off missile strikes in the Red Sea. That’s for another time but for now we should remember that just because a ship is a warship, that doesn’t mean it’s strong.

I commanded four warships. Let’s take a look at this Royal Navy crash in Bahrain

Ship handling can be a tricky business, even with twin screws and bow thruster

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Navy_Pete]

Looks like it was just a very small charge, vice anything to do with the actual ship design. Could have been as rudimentary as a grenade slung under an off the shelf toy drone.

Photos Show Damage to 'Genco Picardy' from Houthi Drone Strike

 

[GK .Dundas]

Related via this comment by a columnist who commanded four ships for the RN,

I commanded four warships. Let’s take a look at this Royal Navy crash in Bahrain

Ship handling can be a tricky business, even with twin screws and bow thruster

www.telegraph.co.uk

What was that quote prior to the Falklands war?
Oh yes , modern warships are eggs armed with hammers.

 

[Navy_Pete]

What was that quote prior to the Falklands war?
Oh yes , modern warships are eggs armed with hammers.

It's because legacy warship armour plating against modern munitions is just adding shrapnel to the damage, and in some cases would actually cause the blast to stay inside the ship and create more damage. There is a huge amount of ongoing analysis on what happens for different kinds of blasts from all sorts of munitions from all kinds of vectors when you do the design and combat vulnerability analysis.

 

[Kirkhill]

Looks like it was just a very small charge, vice anything to do with the actual ship design. Could have been as rudimentary as a grenade slung under an off the shelf toy drone.

Photos Show Damage to 'Genco Picardy' from Houthi Drone Strike

In a military parade on the ninth anniversary of the coup on Sept. 21, 2023, the Houthis unveiled new short-range and long-range capabilities, including the following:

• Typhoon or Toufan long-range ballistic missiles with a range of 1,350-1,900 km, which are reminiscent of Iran’s Ghadr ballistic missiles (Edit: 650-1000 kg warhead)
  
• Quds-4 and Quds Z-0 land attack cruise missiles that can engage land and naval targets (Edit: derived from KH-55 with a conventional warhead ca 400 kg)
  
• Asef and Falaq sea denial systems, with a range of 200 km and 300 km, respectively, akin to Iran’s Khalij-e Fars anti-ship missiles (Edit: 650 kg warhead)

Previously known weapons with medium- and long-range strike capabilities include:

• Samad 2/3/4 drones, reminiscent of Iran’s Shahed drones, with a reported range of 1,200 km-1,500 km, 1,300 km-1,700 km, and 2,000 km, respectively (Edit: 50 kg warhead)
  
• Wa’id drones, similar to Iran’s Shahed 136, with a reported range of 2,500 km (Edit: 50 kg warhead)
  
• Quds-2 cruise missiles, similar to Iran’s Soumar, with a reported range of up to 1,350 km (Edit: derived from KH-55 with a conventional warhead ca 400 kg)
  
• Burkan-2H/3 missiles, reminiscent of Iran’s Qiam, with a reported range of 1,000 km and 1,200 km, respectively (Edit: 750 kg warhead)

The Houthis’ Red Sea missile and drone attack: Drivers and implications

On Oct. 19, the Pentagon press secretary confirmed that the Iran-backed Houthi militia targeted the USS Carney, an Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer, in the Red Sea. The USS Carney reportedly intercepted three cruise missiles and several drones without sustaining any damage or...

www.mei.edu

A couple of observations.

It seems like everybody is playing horseshoes these days. And they are getting better.

That suggests to me that rockets and precision guidance are getting cheaper and more accessible.

 

[Kirkhill]

9 Lessons from Iranian and Houthi Attacks on Ships in the Red Sea - Naval News

Dramatic attacks on ships in the Red Sea, Arabian Sea and Gulf of Aden have gained world attention. Here are nine observations.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Navy_Pete]

The Houthis’ Red Sea missile and drone attack: Drivers and implications

On Oct. 19, the Pentagon press secretary confirmed that the Iran-backed Houthi militia targeted the USS Carney, an Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer, in the Red Sea. The USS Carney reportedly intercepted three cruise missiles and several drones without sustaining any damage or...

www.mei.edu

A couple of observations.

It seems like everybody is playing horseshoes these days. And they are getting better.

That suggests to me that rockets and precision guidance are getting cheaper and more accessible.

Sure, but so far I haven't seen any damage to the container ships where they were hit by an anti ship missile (the description I saw was they hit the water near the ship). Don't know if that's deliberate, but he's not really using 'survivability' in a combatant sense of things.

If an anti ship missile hit the superstucture or the engine room (which is usually below it) would be pretty much gone. The actual ship may not sink, but it's survivable in terms of floating only. And even eating something on the containers on decks may cause fires or mess up stability enough to lead to loss of the vessel.

Commercial ships are only intended to ever keep floating and moving in a much more limited scope of possible damage, and none of that includes a supersonic strike, followed by an explosion, and subsequent shock wave and fires. I think he's extrapolating a lot more than what the actual damage they've taken to date supports, but not really sure what his actual background is as he seems to be a naval history buff, which may or may not include any kind of technical familiarity with ship or warship design.

Combatant survivability is broken down into float, move and fight, which is why you have way more compartmentalization, redundancy, control points, reconfigurability and things like shock mounting, on top of passive and active self defense systems.

 

[OldSolduer]

Are the big container ships and tankers double hulled? Question from a landlubber…

 

[Navy_Pete]

Are the big container ships and tankers double hulled? Question from a landlubber…

I think 'double bottom' is a better descriptor, as it's not all the way up the hull. Requirements vary a bit based on the class of ship, but it's primarily to prevent fuel spills on things like tankers (think exxon valdez). If it's a passenger ship, a whole raft of other requirements also kick in across the board, but additional life safety is a big part of it. Those requirements change over time though so it will vary a bit depending on when it was built, and if the updated regs required any changes to existing ships.

Commercial ships are built as cheaply as possible though, so if there is a requirement it's usually because something has happened, and someone has figured out that it's cheaper to add in standard safety features. If they don't maintain the standard and lose their class certification, they won't get insurance. It all started after Titanic, where they got together at the UN and drew up basic requirements like having enough life boats and jackets.

There seems to be a fleet of decrepit single hull tankers though carrying fuel from Russia and Iran to evade the embargoes, and those are sketchy as hell with no insurance or safeties, so I guess it depends.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think 'double bottom' is a better descriptor, as it's not all the way up the hull. Requirements vary a bit based on the class of ship, but it's primarily to prevent fuel spills on things like tankers (think exxon valdez). If it's a passenger ship, a whole raft of other requirements also kick in across the board, but additional life safety is a big part of it. Those requirements change over time though so it will vary a bit depending on when it was built, and if the updated regs required any changes to existing ships.

Commercial ships are built as cheaply as possible though, so if there is a requirement it's usually because something has happened, and someone has figured out that it's cheaper to add in standard safety features. If they don't maintain the standard and lose their class certification, they won't get insurance. It all started after Titanic, where they got together at the UN and drew up basic requirements like having enough life boats and jackets.

There seems to be a fleet of decrepit single hull tankers though carrying fuel from Russia and Iran to evade the embargoes, and those are sketchy as hell with no insurance or safeties, so I guess it depends.

Self insurance is a thing.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think 'double bottom' is a better descriptor, as it's not all the way up the hull. Requirements vary a bit based on the class of ship, but it's primarily to prevent fuel spills on things like tankers (think exxon valdez). If it's a passenger ship, a whole raft of other requirements also kick in across the board, but additional life safety is a big part of it. Those requirements change over time though so it will vary a bit depending on when it was built, and if the updated regs required any changes to existing ships.

Commercial ships are built as cheaply as possible though, so if there is a requirement it's usually because something has happened, and someone has figured out that it's cheaper to add in standard safety features. If they don't maintain the standard and lose their class certification, they won't get insurance. It all started after Titanic, where they got together at the UN and drew up basic requirements like having enough life boats and jackets.

There seems to be a fleet of decrepit single hull tankers though carrying fuel from Russia and Iran to evade the embargoes, and those are sketchy as hell with no insurance or safeties, so I guess it depends.

Technically the LNG carriers are, but depending on type might not meet the standards people think that means.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Technically the LNG carriers are, but depending on type might not meet the standards people think that means.

Are those also not full of thermal insulation in the voids? Seems like a good idea when you are transporting flammable gasses in a cryogenic state.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Are those also not full of thermal insulation in the voids? Seems like a good idea when you are transporting flammable gasses in a cryogenic state.

yes, neat engineering

Older style

Newer

 

[Kirkhill]

Or

Tiger Gas to take delivery of first LNG tank carrier

Hong Kong-based Tiger Gas, led by former Seaspan CEO Gerry Wang, expects to take delivery of the first out of four LNG ISO tank carriers in December this year.

lngprime.com

Hong Kong-based Tiger Gas, led by former Seaspan CEO Gerry Wang, expects to take delivery of the first out of four LNG ISO tank carriers by the end of this year.

China’s Yangzijiang Shipbuilding, which is building these vessels claimed to be the world’s largest dual-fuel LNG tank carriers, has launched the second ship in this batch, Tiger Maanshan, on November 5.

This launch follows the float out of the first vessel, Tiger Longkou, in October.

Yangzijiang says it would hand over the first vessel by the end of December, four months ahead of the previously planned delivery in April 2022.

The vessels will also feature type C tanks and go on LNG and will be capable of transporting ISO tanks in both deep sea and inland waters such as the Yangtze River.

They will have a capacity to carry 690 40ft LNG ISO tanks or about 15,000 tons of LNG, Yangzijiang said.

Tiger Gas will use these vessels to mainly transport ISO tanks from Malaysia to China.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's a very short hop and a lot of handling of the gas vessels. We will see how this all works. I wonder how they deal with off gassing?