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Class Action Suit against NVC & "Govt has no obligation to soldiers"

Every year I need to prove via a Doctors note to Manulife that somehow my gait has had a miracle and improved so that I no longer need the orthotics I've been wearing for over 20 years.

Sorry, but in my opinion this is just more of the kind of the " we are superior to normal Canadians" that has pretty much stopped me from reading/watching these rants.

Being a Veteran DOES NOT mean you are more, or less, then any other medically-conditioned Canadian...............get over it!!
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Every year I need to prove via a Doctors note to Manulife that somehow my gait has had a miracle and improved so that I no longer need the orthotics I've been wearing for over 20 years.

Sorry, but in my opinion this is just more of the kind of the " we are superior to normal Canadians" that has pretty much stopped me from reading/watching these rants.

Being a Veteran DOES NOT mean you are more, or less, then any other medically-conditioned Canadian...............get over it!!

As incorrect as I feel you are, I recognize you are not the only one with that opinion.

I see a difference between those who simply got "hurt at work" and those who volunteered to stand on the wall and were hurt.  The later are special Canadians and they deserve special care and treatment.  Just my opinion and I have no doubt we disagree.
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Every year I need to prove via a Doctors note to Manulife that somehow my gait has had a miracle and improved so that I no longer need the orthotics I've been wearing for over 20 years.

Sorry, but in my opinion this is just more of the kind of the " we are superior to normal Canadians" that has pretty much stopped me from reading/watching these rants.

Being a Veteran DOES NOT mean you are more, or less, then any other medically-conditioned Canadian...............get over it!!

For me it's more the lack of ability for the person handling the file to have any type of free thought.  It's like dealing with someone in a call centre or help line.  They follow the script in the book and heaven help you if you try and get them to skip ahead.

Really, anyone handling a file should know that legs don't grow back, shot out eyes don't return and kids don't get over being autistic (an issue a friend has had to deal with yearly with CRA).  Now, if the person is handling a file for orthotics, cancer treatment, depression, chronic pain, or some other ailment, then sure, ask if it's still pertinent.  But that's the problem.  They are following steps in a book and get all flustered when asked to skip something or think for themselves.
 
When I made a claim for my injuries I had to see a VAC doctor. I have some large holes in my leg but that doctor assured me it would completely grow back. Well 8 years later I'm still waiting for that to happen. Maybe we are lizard soldiers? Also if your missing limbs or any other body part it shouldn't have to be reassessed . Things like the need for or thotics I could see being reassessed. Missing body parts and or thotics are 2 way different things.
 
Of course they are..............but the procedure is still the procedure.  Paperwork gets filled in and the machine will keep turning.........it's not a "poor friggin us" argument.  Sorry.....
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Every year I need to prove via a Doctors note to Manulife that somehow my gait has had a miracle and improved so that I no longer need the orthotics I've been wearing for over 20 years.

Sorry, but in my opinion this is just more of the kind of the " we are superior to normal Canadians" that has pretty much stopped me from reading/watching these rants.

Being a Veteran DOES NOT mean you are more, or less, then any other medically-conditioned Canadian...............get over it!!

On one foot I agree with you.  I have a family member who can get up to 3 free pairs of shoes or boots a year through his insurance. I'm not sure the price cap but I was offered free $400ish Danner boots like it was a stick of gum.  He can essentially get these new boots every year and give them away or sell them or whatever.  So yes there is a capacity for a company loosing money due to fraud.

That said I think it's fair to say there is a significant difference between a bad gait and missing both your legs.  I don't think a bad gait qualifies someone as being disabled, this guy is pretty much stuck to a wheel chair and even if he gets new legs, he will never regrow legs.  I'll add a wheel chair that he's had taken away from him twice. That's a pretty big slap IMO.

I understand what you're saying about the military not being special (and I agree with that in a lot of cases) but having to prove you lost your legs every year is simply unacceptable whether you're a vet or never-served civilian. 

If you rear end me  I can go to a doctor with whiplash or something and tentatively get millions from your insurance company.  Soldiers are having their extremities blown off while serving their country and having to fight for years to get compensation that's a tenth of what they would get with civilian insurance. 
 
Strike said:
For me it's more the lack of ability for the person handling the file to have any type of free thought.  It's like dealing with someone in a call centre or help line.  They follow the script in the book and heaven help you if you try and get them to skip ahead.
They are following steps in a book and get all flustered when asked to skip something or think for themselves.

Maybe because they wish to keep their jobs?  How often do you do your job as you think it should be done and not the way your COC has instructed  you to do it?
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Of course they are..............but the procedure is still the procedure.  Paperwork gets filled in and the machine will keep turning.........it's not a "poor friggin us" argument.  Sorry.....

You seem to be against change. The system is changeable. If it's changed for veterans then couldn't Canadians also have it changed and vice versa? I don't see anyone saying "oh poor us" More like these are the issues they aren't right let's try to fix them. Saying it is the way it is now shut up about it doesn't do anyone any good.
 
Teager said:
You seem to be against change. The system is changeable. If it's changed for veterans then couldn't Canadians also have it changed and vice versa? I don't see anyone saying "oh poor us" More like these are the issues they aren't right let's try to fix them. Saying it is the way it is now shut up about it doesn't do anyone any good.

Bruce

Poor example on your part.  Sorry, comparing you gait to an amputation/missing body part was way out of line.

How often have we seen the Government change its Forms?  All it takes is for them to change their forms and add a BIG BOX on TOP that indicates whether or not the Claimant has a PERMANENT INJURY: ie. Amputation.  If that is not enough to stop this nonsense, then I think it is time to CLEAN HOUSE and lay off incompetent brain dead people working in the Public Service.
 
Not against change at all............the machine needs to be held accountable. 
Whining about having to fill in yearly paperwork to an insurance company is just sadly pathetic and makes all Vets look like fools................no other way to sugar-coat that.


 
George Wallace said:
Bruce

Poor example on your part.  Sorry, comparing you gait to an amputation/missing body part was way out of line.

How often have we seen the Government change its Forms?  All it takes is for them to change their forms and add a BIG BOX on TOP that indicates whether or not the Claimant has a PERMANENT INJURY: ie. Amputation.  If that is not enough to stop this nonsense, then I think it is time to CLEAN HOUSE and lay off incompetent brain dead people working in the Public Service.

George.............start reading the whole thread before you post.  Go back to the last page and READ this post.  Just how does firing the Public Service fix Manulife??  Enlighten me....
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Maybe because they wish to keep their jobs?  How often do you do your job as you think it should be done and not the way your COC has instructed  you to do it?

Of course I do, but if there is a problem or an issue for which I also have a solution, or a better way to achieve the same goal, I'll also bring that up.  You know me well enough to know I'm not one to sit there and be all yes sir, no sir.  ;D
 
Yes I do but in the end an employee can follow the script given or quit.  I'm sure none of them want to sound, and act, like moronic imbeciles................
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Every year I need to prove via a Doctors note to Manulife that somehow my gait has had a miracle and improved so that I no longer need the orthotics I've been wearing for over 20 years.

Sorry, but in my opinion this is just more of the kind of the " we are superior to normal Canadians" that has pretty much stopped me from reading/watching these rants.

Being a Veteran DOES NOT mean you are more, or less, then any other medically-conditioned Canadian...............get over it!!


It's just that..... your opinion.  Let others have their opinion either way.    Just sayin'.............
 
krustyrl said:
It's just that..... your opinion.  Let others have their opinion either way.    Just sayin'.............

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I not fall in step?
Carry on.....
 
milnews.ca said:

First and foremost, I think Mr. Franklin deserves a helluva lot more than he's received.  At the same time, I don't believe that the vilification of VAC is going to help matters.  All that does is get a pile of angry guys ranting and raving and spawning stories of "I have a buddy who got royally screwed by VAC blah blah blah" and it feeds the rumour mill and fills peoples heads with all sorts of myth and BS when it comes to VAC.  One of the more popular ones being "VAC always declines first pension applications in the hopes you'll get frustrated and give up to save the Government money". This myth needs to be added to Snopes as a big FALSE.  Pensions get awarded to the Veteran who has a diagnosis and medical records and CF98's to back up their pension claim.  The bulk of pension denials come from a lack of medical documentation to tie the claimed condition to service - i.e the soldier who "sucks it up and soldiers on" without going to the UMS and then is stymied when he shows up to VAC looking for a pension but there's no paper trail in his med docs to award him a pension he deserves.  Too many myths have become truths in the minds of soldiers and Veterans because of misinformation and stories told that slants the readers/listeners minds against VAC. So, don't come back on me raging about how dare I question this mans dealings with VAC, I am about to shine some light on a (in my opinion) very short blog that is a Veteran venting his frustrations against VAC.  I say again, in my opinion, Mr. Franklin deserves at least a million dollars per leg, but I don't make those decisions but I also think the other side of the coin should be shown.

I've read this blog he posted, but this also raises a few other head scratchers - this directly from his blog piece;

"After returning in 2006, the Department of Defence (DoD) did amazing things and worked tiredly on the issue and where VAC (Veterans' Affairs) failed to deliver they stepped up. Upon my retirement "my file" of course went to VAC and to quote a great writer "and this is where my trouble began."

Now again, it's rather cloudy as it is a condensed article roughly outlining some of the hoops this guy has had to jump through, but I am being forced to use educated guesswork to fill in missing pieces.  "After returning in 2006..." I am assuming that this "returning" was his repatriation after being wounded in Afghanistan, "Department of Defence did amazing things and worked tirelessly on the issue and where VAC failed to deliver, they stepped up"

He acknowledges DND did amazing things for him upon his return, and that VAC somehow failed him.  Well.... VAC has no right to do anything for him at that point.  As long as a member is still serving, VAC cannot do SFA for a Veteran aside from granting him a pension. (He could have received VIP services at the time he was wounded, now it's DND's responsibility to provide VIP services for still serving members.) Their hands are tied! DND damned well SHOULD have done amazing things for him - the man lost his legs, I would expect nothing less than DND doing all they can to help this man and they had an obligation to do so. However, he says "where VAC failed to deliver, they stepped up." Well, there really wasn't much VAC COULD have done for him aside from granting him a pension (and possibly VIP services at the time).  Acknowledgement of his wounds and a pension, but after that, a still serving member is DND's responsibility to provide ALL medical care and aids for daily living, not VAC's, even if you have a pension.  Once he releases from the Forces, THEN it falls to VAC to provide anything he needs that is in relation to his pensioned condition. There NEVER should have been a bun fight over who pays for his wheelchair - if he was still serving (as I am believing he was since it doesn't say but is highly unlikely he was medically released that quickly after he was wounded.) DND was responsible to pick up the tab, not VAC.  The fact there was a bun fight over this contradicts the comment that DND did amazing things..... no, DND from the sounds of it, tried fluffing off their responsibility to provide him with a wheelchair that he desperately needed, and still does.

The second time he lost his wheelchair, and I quote directly from his blog;

"The second was just last year when upon getting a new chair it was felt by VAC that I didn't get the appropriate paperwork -- which was a doctor's note saying "Due to transformal amputations, Paul Franklin needs a new wheelchair."

Again, there's cloudiness here. At a glance, this is disgusting treatment.  No doubt exists Mr. Franklin needs a wheelchair and he damned certainly shouldn't have to pay for it either, but, playing some devil's advocate and the fact that I took a job at VAC after my own medical release, I have some knowledge as to how some processes work - I'm not saying I know all the details of his case, all I know is the information provided in this blog here, and as I mentioned, at a glance, this is unacceptable treatment of him on VAC's part.  However, VAC has clear cut policies and directives on aids for daily living such as wheelchairs, CPAP machines, hearing aids etc etc.  I'm merely GUESSING here, but from the information provided, it appears that Mr. Franklin obtained a scrip from his doctor saying he requires a wheelchair. Check. No argument there.  From that point he says " it was felt by VAC that I didn't get the appropriate paperwork -- which was a doctor's note saying "Due to transformal amputations, Paul Franklin needs a new wheelchair."  Ok, but it doesn't say what happened between getting that doctors scrip and what transpired thereafter. 

Educated guessing, but it appears that after obtaining the scrip, Mr. Franklin went to a provider and ordered a wheelchair as per his doctors scrip.  Also guessing, but he may have even paid for it out of his own pocket and then tried going to VAC for re-imbursement.  If this is the case, of course VAC wouldn't have paid for it.  Or perhaps he ordered the wheelchair, then when it arrived, tried going to VAC to pay for it without paying out of pocket.  Either way, once he had gotten a doctors note, he should have gone straight to VAC with that scrip, they would have sent out an Occupational Therapist to his home for a full assessment of his needs.  Maybe he has 2 floors and needs a chair lift installed, a custom bathtub he could get in and out of with ease.... The O.T then would have done up a full assessment and submitted it, then Mr. Franklin would have been called by VAC to tell him he needs to bring in at least 2 different quotes from 2 providers and his wheelchair would have been taken care of by VAC. Again, I'm doing guesswork to fill in HUGE holes here, but I guarantee that if a Veteran shows up at VAC with a scrip for a wheelchair, walker, scooter etc etc., the process will get done to ensure they get the aids they need.  It just sounds like a very unfortunate mix up that caused Mr. Franklin distress he didn't need.  Perhaps he was not informed on the proper process to obtain a wheelchair from VAC once he was released from the CF.  That would be completely understandable and a logical explanation as to how this occurred in the first place, but the information on services ought to have been on hand at a SCAN seminar when he was releasing.  Or... maybe this was all VAC's fault from the get-go, but I think there's more here than is revealed.  Fact is, we'll never know. When we believe we've been wronged, the story we share is the story that will garner the most support for our cause.  I'll say this again though, regardless of all I've written, this shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay what this man has endured.  I have all the respect in the world for him, and his statement to finish that blog on not being willing to take a call from the MVA was a move beyond selfless class.  He puts others before himself and in my opinion, the price he paid deserves to be given priority.  I just feel there's more to some things than meets the eye and I just wanted to point out a glance at the flip side of the coin.


 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Of course they are..............but the procedure is still the procedure.  Paperwork gets filled in and the machine will keep turning.........it's not a "poor friggin us" argument.  Sorry.....

I deal with both Manulife and VAC. There is an astronomical difference in how each works and how they treat their clients. Manulife is straight forward, no bullshit, file your paperwork, get paid.

Nothing about VAC even remotely resembles it.
 
reccecrewman said:
and the fact that I took a job at VAC after my own medical release

I was wondering why you sounded so much like my Case Manager, defending her job.

Just an observation.
 
reccecrewman said:
  Perhaps he was not informed on the proper process to obtain a wheelchair from VAC once he was released from the CF.  That would be completely understandable and a logical explanation as to how this occurred in the first place, but the information on services ought to have been on hand at a SCAN seminar when he was releasing.  Or... maybe this was all VAC's fault from the get-go, but I think there's more here than is revealed. .

Fair enough comments, but your assumption about SCAN seminars are incorrect, at least from the one I attended in London 2 years ago, and another in Toronto last year. Both were incredibly vague, and the default seem to be this will be covered during your release interview with a VAC rep, if you haven't already dealt with VAC.

I released last year, and my interview with the VAC rep wasn\t all that useful either, best could be summed up in "read our website"
 
recceguy said:
I was wondering why you sounded so much like my Case Manager, defending her job.

Just an observation.

Thank you, but I'm not a Case Manager defending my job, I was an Administration CR4.  If you read my comments, I was quite open to the fact that VAC certainly has it faults.  If people get defensive that someone is stepping up to say "Hey, maybe this point of view should be dissected a little to try and get the full story" rather than just being content to keep a blindfold on and open wide to accept whatever shyte on a spoon gets shovelled into our mouths, well, so be it - your prerogative.

Petard said:
Fair enough comments, but your assumption about SCAN seminars are incorrect, at least from the one I attended in London 2 years ago, and another in Toronto last year. Both were incredibly vague, and the default seem to be this will be covered during your release interview with a VAC rep, if you haven't already dealt with VAC.

I released last year, and my interview with the VAC rep wasn\t all that useful either, best could be summed up in "read our website"

On this matter, I also said "ought" to have been covered in a SCAN seminar.  I assume nothing with regards to a SCAN as I have attended more than one and know full well the information quantity and quality can greatly vary.  However, that being said, there has to be an onus on the individual to seek out information to get informed.  If I'm medically releasing and need a CPAP machine and hearing aids, I would have those as a priority question to find out what I need to do after I release to ensure I have no hiccups when the time comes to replace them. As for VAC Transition Interviews when your releasing, they are what you make of them.  There is a set standardized spiel that a CSA will rhyme off for the interview, and if the member answers "Nope, good to go!" when the CSA finishes their spiel and says "Any questions?", well, off he goes with the bare minimum information and his clearout card stamped.  If the member engages and asks questions, chances are high they will leave the T.I with plenty of good information.

Also on this note, I am also fully aware that the standards across VAC District Offices Canada-wide vary greatly (they shouldn't, but do - like I said from the get-go, VAC has plenty of faults) so yes, the Transition Interview an individual gets at the Windsor D.O can be completely different from another T.I at the Pembroke D.O, but there are required check boxes that are to be ticked off at each and every T.I.  Some CSA's go above and beyond to offer advice and help specific to soldiers' particular cases as they interview them, others don't.

 
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