Continuity of MG capabilities; Vickers-C1/5-C6

[a_majoor]

I will admit I have never seen a handcart of the type shown in the website, either in a museum or even in pictures. This is certainly one of those ideas that "makes sense", and if the "B" fleet is being heavily cut, maybe *we* ought to start thinking along these lines.

As for finding clear images of soldiers in marching order carrying machine guns, I have not come across anything yet. Perhaps somethng could be rigged up like a C-9 sling for carrying the weapon strapped to your back, but adapted for a tripod.

 

[Kirkhill]

Is this helpful? It's only a model but it appears germane.

Text Link

 

[a_majoor]

This is the sort of thing I had in mind, but without a picture would have been reduced to handwaving...

Thanks!

 

[KevinB]

Germans still have some neat MG stuff -- the US Army - (hardly whom I would call SME's on MG's) have a LW tripod that can work with the M249 of all things...

The MG course USED to do IDF...  Record Targets and all that sort of thing.  A properly working T&E mech with a M2 of C5 could do well -- not as good perhaps as the C6 SF kit - but still a healthy job of recording targets and engaging those targets in the indirect mode.

Sometime after the Korean war - the Canadian Military started looking at shiny objects instead of ensuring the arts that worked so well got retained.

The death of the MG platoons where the #1 killer, then with the removal of the Mortar Pl from the Inf - the C2 sight and any really knowledge of IDF is going going gone.

 

[Kirkhill]

Thanks for the Breadcrumbs Kevin.

Thuc:

A Jerry MG3 Tripod complete with integrated straps and padding

And the Lightweight M192

 

[KevinB]

With a 240L as well - nice find.

The Germans have been pimping the new Hk121 MG5 in that tripod recently too

 

[Dissident]

While arguably not enough, at least the theory of indirect fire is being taught on the res Infantry DP2 at 39CBG. I am teaching on a BMQ right now and they had one week end where one of the Mod for the DP2 course was being taught. Drills, C2 sights and tripods all around.

Since someone made me read the Regimental Rogue papers, the idea of using MMGs and HMGs in the indirect role has tickled my fancy. When I saw the C2 sights and tripods I got a bit excited and talked to the staff of that course. Registering targets and fireplans were part of the TP. They at least appeared to have a good idea of how to do things, but I am just a wannabe.

 

[KevinB]

They record targets - but its all DF.

 

[Shrek1985]

That's really cool stuff guys, but naturally I am limited to the L4 Tripod. In the det we have two guys with jump rucks and I have a Packbord, but I do not want to bring that relic out because it defeats my primary purpose of ruck+SF kit.

Gah; I'm being slow, it was http://www.combatreform.org/mmg.htm

 

[a_majoor]

Not thinking so much about a packboard as how you could strap the tripod to the ruck instead. Obvious downside of that would be shifting the CoG far to the rear and making it more difficult to stand up, walk etc.

Tying it off to the top of the ruck might have some safety issues (being conked on the back of the head), but probably gives you a bit more mobility.

In the old days, we used to unford the tripod and put two of the legs over the number 2's shoulders, which was sort of bearable if some padding (in those days rolls of hessian) was wrapped around the legs. There was some debate about putting a cross strap between the legs (in the manner of the straps on you small pack and rucksack that hold the shoulder straps together), since it made getting the thing into action a bit more involved, but on the plus side, kept the tripod stable and secure on your back.

Let us know how your experiments go (and post pics too!)

 

[Shrek1985]

Not thinking so much about a packboard as how you could strap the tripod to the ruck instead. Obvious downside of that would be shifting the CoG far to the rear and making it more difficult to stand up, walk etc.

Tying it off to the top of the ruck might have some safety issues (being conked on the back of the head), but probably gives you a bit more mobility.

In the old days, we used to unford the tripod and put two of the legs over the number 2's shoulders, which was sort of bearable if some padding (in those days rolls of hessian) was wrapped around the legs. There was some debate about putting a cross strap between the legs (in the manner of the straps on you small pack and rucksack that hold the shoulder straps together), since it made getting the thing into action a bit more involved, but on the plus side, kept the tripod stable and secure on your back.

Let us know how your experiments go (and post pics too!)

Those are the same issues I forsee. About all I am certain of at this point is that the caddy-bag is not viable for what we want to do. We tend to hit the bush and stay there, with rucks. Moving by truck and foot. Anything that makes that harder than it has to be is on my no-go list.

We will start with an inspection of all tripods and making sure the c2 sights are green-lit by a tech. I am hoping something obvious will present itself once we have rucks and tripod side by each that is not coming to me now.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The over the shoulder method can be seen late in this film
http://youtu.be/9_HYmcm9A2o

 

[daftandbarmy]

Slight side track: the book 'Excursion to Hell' is an excellent account of 3PARA's MG Platoon in the Falklands War. Lots of pointers in there...

Viz:

"Phill Brown rated this book as Excellent
Having served as a rifleman in the Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment for 12 years, its the lessons learned in this book that proffesional soldiers take to heart. Myself a SFMG team member for two years, had an insight into the demands of the job for real. Later deploying to Bosnia in 1995, i read the book agian and as a consequence we under took specific training in scenarios relating to the story. It was with great relief that our CQMS gave us more than enough ammunition to ensure the balancing of the barrells. We think it might have had something to do with the fact that he too read the book!!!"

http://britains-smallwars.com/swbooks/Excursion.html

 

[Shrek1985]

I think I read about one of their battles years ago. Taking a trench system from the Argies and finishing the battle with their captured ammo?

quote author=daftandbarmy link=topic=112678/post-1270659#msg1270659 date=1384902112]
Slight side track: the book 'Excursion to Hell' is an excellent account of 3PARA's MG Platoon in the Falklands War. Lots of pointers in there...

Viz:

"Phill Brown rated this book as Excellent
Having served as a rifleman in the Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment for 12 years, its the lessons learned in this book that proffesional soldiers take to heart. Myself a SFMG team member for two years, had an insight into the demands of the job for real. Later deploying to Bosnia in 1995, i read the book agian and as a consequence we under took specific training in scenarios relating to the story. It was with great relief that our CQMS gave us more than enough ammunition to ensure the balancing of the barrells. We think it might have had something to do with the fact that he too read the book!!!"

http://britains-smallwars.com/swbooks/Excursion.html
[/quote]

 

[Kirkhill]

The over the shoulder method can be seen late in this film
http://youtu.be/9_HYmcm9A2o

From an Aussie site...

 

[daftandbarmy]

From an Aussie site...

That's how we used to carry the (32lb) tripod over hill and dale, whew...

 

[NavyShooter]

With my own semi-auto C1 (1919A4) at home...maybe I should get together with a local expert and do some learning about indirect fire....could come in useful next time I go hunting....

 

[a_majoor]

That's how we used to carry the (32lb) tripod over hill and dale, whew...

Same, but without the smile.....

Wrap something around the legs for padding and I think you have reached the 80% solution.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Same, but without the smile.....

Wrap something around the legs for padding and I think you have reached the 80% solution.

We bungeed empty sandbags to the legs for padding, then filled and used them once we'd dug in/ stopped.

 

[Kirkhill]

Came across this packboard solution on Olive Drab.  Might want to hire a big fellow for that one.

Although these South Koreans seem to be managing fine with 3 Ammo Cans or a Jerry Can.

By the way - I have fond memories of conducting advance to contact drills through the sandy trails of Borden one joyous, sunny, July afternoon in full kit with the additional pleasure of a 5 Gal (50 lb) Jerrycan of water strapped to my '64 pack frame, under my sleeping bag.  That was back in the days when I had knees.