Cost of housing in Canada

[ArmyRick]

On the number of people unemployed and jobs unfilled, a problem with the "reductionist thinking"

I know of many employers looking for people, but in areas where rent is stupid high (like stupider high than other areas). SO how does a person move to X, easily get employed but doesn't make much more than minimum wage and can't even pay rent? It doesn't work. At all.

Truth is, on housing, Canada fucked itself hard in the back end.

I have no idea why in gods green earth, we keep shoving all immigrants, refugees and border jumpers into heavily populated areas. Why? Making larger cities even more denser to me is stupid.

Somehow, there has to be a coordinated effort between all three levels of government and major corporate employers to
1. Get more people and businesses out of the large cities (sorry but not good for the environment, housing or anything);
2. Encourage more people and businesses to move to smaller towns (rebates? Grants? a pat on the back?); and
3. What the F ever is going with slowing down of housing, lets clear it up and get building already.

I don't have all the answers, hell I may be out to lunch. My observations are what I see happening to other people I know.

 

[Good2Golf]

I have no idea why in gods green earth, we keep shoving all immigrants, refugees and border jumpers into heavily populated areas. Why? Making larger cities even more denser to me is stupid.

Because it fits within the Government’s intention to have the majority of Canada’s population living inside of 15-minute cities and not owning anything, but rather paying ongoing money for ‘Life as a Service’ (LaaS). It’s the way of the the post-nation state’s rise, after all. People should not feel they need to own a house or anything like that, you will have all that you need in the post-nation state Nirvana…

 

[Brad Sallows]

An acquaintance who works for a municipality once tried to explain to me that communities of detached housing are "unsustainable", meaning financially. I gather it hinges on the increasing cost of providing all the services and infrastructure people expect, relative to the available tax base. I doubt the overall truth of the matter because one of the reasons some large cities pursue amalgamation of suburb communities is because of the relative affluence of the suburb communities.

In particular cases, some low density communities experiencing rapid growth are financially pressed. Examples in BC might include Langley (township), Abbotsford, Chilliwack - all have to provide services to one or two large population concentrations and a bunch of small clusters within large rural/semi-rural areas. Obviously the cost of providing infrastructure is high relative to the number of taxpayers.

If this is the contemporary concensus among people working for cities, high density enthusiasm is to be expected.

I suspect that an underlying cause is Baumol Effect, or something like it, along with all the other factors that aggravate the time/cost of building and maintaining infrastructure. There are also small cities which aggravate their financial situations by denying themselves potential commercial taxpayers/local employers. And then there are the plain ordinary boondoggles. There is a lot of room for improvement of factors under direct control before resorting to trying to make people live lives they don't really want to live.

 

[Eaglelord17]

An acquaintance who works for a municipality once tried to explain to me that communities of detached housing are "unsustainable", meaning financially. I gather it hinges on the increasing cost of providing all the services and infrastructure people expect, relative to the available tax base. I doubt the overall truth of the matter because one of the reasons some large cities pursue amalgamation of suburb communities is because of the relative affluence of the suburb communities.

In particular cases, some low density communities experiencing rapid growth are financially pressed. Examples in BC might include Langley (township), Abbotsford, Chilliwack - all have to provide services to one or two large population concentrations and a bunch of small clusters within large rural/semi-rural areas. Obviously the cost of providing infrastructure is high relative to the number of taxpayers.

If this is the contemporary concensus among people working for cities, high density enthusiasm is to be expected.

I suspect that an underlying cause is Baumol Effect, or something like it, along with all the other factors that aggravate the time/cost of building and maintaining infrastructure. There are also small cities which aggravate their financial situations by denying themselves potential commercial taxpayers/local employers. And then there are the plain ordinary boondoggles. There is a lot of room for improvement of factors under direct control before resorting to trying to make people live lives they don't really want to live.

Its only unsustainable because the government has expanded its role from what it should be doing to things it wants to be doing.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Its only unsustainable because the government has expanded its role from what it should be doing to things it wants to be doing.

Yes sustaining infrastructure like sewer and water which no one sees or understands takes away from sexy stuff like parks, bike lanes and community spaces, all which gets people elected.

 

[Quirky]

I have no idea why in gods green earth, we keep shoving all immigrants, refugees and border jumpers into heavily populated areas. Why? Making larger cities even more denser to me is stupid.

Our largest cities, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal are also in relatively milder climates. The only people who seem to tolerate the prairies in larger numbers are Ukrainians. I'm sure there are stats out there that break down all the numbers, however I don't know if they are updated after the Russian war. I don't find any appeal to living in the GTA, Toronto is only there as a stepping stone for an international flight.

 

[OldSolduer]

Because it fits within the Government’s intention to have the majority of Canada’s population living inside of 15-minute cities and not owning anything, but rather paying ongoing money for ‘Life as a Service’ (LaaS). It’s the way of the the post-nation state’s rise, after all. People should not feel they need to own a house or anything like that, you will have all that you need in the post-nation state Nirvana…

Cause that worked soooooo well in the USSR,,,,hey wait a minute.....

 

[OldSolduer]

Our largest cities, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal are also in relatively milder climates. The only people who seem to tolerate the prairies in larger numbers are Ukrainians. I'm sure there are stats out there that break down all the numbers, however I don't know if they are updated after the Russian war. I don't find any appeal to living in the GTA, Toronto is only there as a stepping stone for an international flight.

Out here in Winterpeg we have a relatively large Indian community. They seem to be ok with the climate and so do the Africans we have.

 

[ArmyRick]

Out here in Winterpeg we have a relatively large Indian community. They seem to be ok with the climate and so do the Africans we have.

People do well in North Bay, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc. People can live in northern and/or colder cities.

 

[GR66]

Big cities are in many way easier for immigrants. Higher potential for a significant expat population to provide support and in general there is a higher density of Government services overall due to the high population density.

I imagine many immigrants would gladly move to a less expensive part of Canada if they had easy access to services (many will rely on public transit while they get established in Canada) and if there were enough other people from their own country/region so that they could get support from others from their home culture and language.

 

[mariomike]

Lots of great urban planning ideas.

The yellow represents Detached House zoning in Toronto.

Maps

The City of Toronto is the cultural, entertainment and financial capital of Canada. The city is home to more than 2.7 million people and is the centre of one of North America's most dynamic regions. Toronto is the capital city of the Province of Ontario.

map.toronto.ca

There are a lot of Ratepayer Associations in Toronto that want to keep zoning the way it is.

Sabrina Maddeaux: The housing boom is back, thanks to NIMBYISM and bad zoning

Many thought that, when the spring market flooded with listings, the entire thing might go bust. Except it hasn’t

nationalpost.com

 

[dimsum]

People do well in North Bay, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc. People can live in northern and/or colder cities.

I mean yeah, people can live in those places.

But as others have said here, if you're new to a country (especially as a non-"Western" person who doesn't really know English or French), you'd probably think that it's easier to go to a place where there are others of your community already established. Easier access to groceries/foodstuffs from home, more chances to speak your native language to others, etc. That becomes even more important if the immigrants are older.

Those happen to (mostly) be in our larger cities.

 

[lenaitch]

I mean yeah, people can live in those places.

But as others have said here, if you're new to a country (especially as a non-"Western" person who doesn't really know English or French), you'd probably think that it's easier to go to a place where there are others of your community already established. Easier access to groceries/foodstuffs from home, more chances to speak your native language to others, etc. That becomes even more important if the immigrants are older.

Those happen to (mostly) be in our larger cities.

Easier for sure, but many recognize the need to break out of the community. We just (and I mean just) bought in North Bay. The people we bought from are an immigrant couple; he's Pakistani and she is, I will guess, Pilipino. Raised five kids, he's right into the huntin' and fishin' lifestyle. I think the 'comfort of the community may be more important if there is multi-generational immigration, like grandparents, or those who really cleave to the old world ways and are simply trying to live like there, but here.

Employment can be an issue, and I suppose if you are or aspire to be a Bay St. lawyer or super high-tech worker, smaller communities can be limiting. It seems many of the fast food and gas station chains have lots of young immigrant workers, and what northern Ontario community doesn't have a Chinese restaurant.

And it really not much different than the south. We have 'lectric lights and everything!

 

[RangerRay]

Right now, there are people literally living in Winnipeg…

(Make sure you use the same tone as one of those “feed starving kids in Africa” charity ads)

 

[Remius]

Easier for sure, but many recognize the need to break out of the community. We just (and I mean just) bought in North Bay. The people we bought from are an immigrant couple; he's Pakistani and she is, I will guess, Pilipino. Raised five kids, he's right into the huntin' and fishin' lifestyle. I think the 'comfort of the community may be more important if there is multi-generational immigration, like grandparents, or those who really cleave to the old world ways and are simply trying to live like there, but here.

Employment can be an issue, and I suppose if you are or aspire to be a Bay St. lawyer or super high-tech worker, smaller communities can be limiting. It seems many of the fast food and gas station chains have lots of young immigrant workers, and what northern Ontario community doesn't have a Chinese restaurant.

And it really not much different than the south. We have 'lectric lights and everything!

The issue as well is while the immigrant worker could/would move to a smaller community to set up shop/business etc, their kids will seek higher education elsewhere and settle somewhere else.

 

[Furniture]

The issue as well is while the immigrant worker could/would move to a smaller community to set up shop/business etc, their kids will seek higher education elsewhere and settle somewhere else.

Exactly like the people from the small communities have been doing for decades.

I'm pretty sure half of my graduating class have moved away from SE PEI.

 

[shiska]

Right now, there are people literally living in Winnipeg…

(Make sure you use the same tone as one of those “feed starving kids in Africa” charity ads)

Reminds me of the classic: Winnipeg - We were born here, what's your excuse?

 

[Quirky]

Right now, there are people literally living in Winnipeg…

Give me Cold Lake over Winnipeg, from a military posting option, any day of the week.

Manitoba and their ridiculous front vehicle plates....

 

[dimsum]

Easier for sure, but many recognize the need to break out of the community. We just (and I mean just) bought in North Bay. The people we bought from are an immigrant couple; he's Pakistani and she is, I will guess, Pilipino. Raised five kids, he's right into the huntin' and fishin' lifestyle. I think the 'comfort of the community may be more important if there is multi-generational immigration, like grandparents, or those who really cleave to the old world ways and are simply trying to live like there, but here.

Employment can be an issue, and I suppose if you are or aspire to be a Bay St. lawyer or super high-tech worker, smaller communities can be limiting. It seems many of the fast food and gas station chains have lots of young immigrant workers, and what northern Ontario community doesn't have a Chinese restaurant.

And it really not much different than the south. We have 'lectric lights and everything!

I’m fairly certain that if you asked said young immigrant workers if they’d rather move to Toronto or Vancouver (and be able to afford it), they would say yes.

Also, yes - every small town in Canada has a Chinese restaurant. There is actually a book about it called Chop Suey Nation, and one of the recurring themes is that most of them are pretty old and the current generation of the family (born/raised in Canada) doesn’t necessarily want to continue the family business.

 

[mariomike]

This, from 7 July, 2023, may help explain the demand for housing in the GTA.
GTA has 238 "cranes in the sky".
Mississauga alone has 39 of them. Calgary has 20.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1677312632473124864