Cost of housing in Canada

[Kirkhill]

Once upon a time there was a city with a thriving labour force that supported Westclox, Fisher-Gage, DeLaval, Outboard Marine, Johnson&Johnson and General Electric. It was on the edge of the Shield with moraines to the south.

Government policy created the town and government policy killed the town. Blessed be government policy.

Small, automated factories and two day shipping are a thing.

 

[Kirkhill]

Further to my last

It was government policy that deeded the lands around Peterborough to the Peter Robinson Settlers (and that is how they were referred to in our history classes as taught by descendants of the settlers - one of the county lines is known as Settlers Line).

It was government policy that created the railway to and through Peterborough and on to Haliburton.

It was government policy that built the Trent-Severn Canal even though that would shortly be overtaken by the year round railway as reliable transportation.

It was government policy that saw the highways into Peterborough.

It was government policy that established the Post Office and the Drill Hall.

The locals did the rest.

A lot of people find a place they want to live and then figure out how to live there.

 

[mariomike]

It was government policy that created the railway to and through Peterborough and on to Haliburton.

I used to take the VIA Rail Budd car. It ran from Union to Havelock - stopping at Peterborough.

Last week took the GO bus.

Depart Oshawa VIA Rail at 0959. Arrived downtown Peterborough 1059. Cost $7.23.

Looks like VIA might be getting back on track. That would be fantastic to see them resume passenger rail service to the area.

Restoration of Via Rail service to Peterborough takes another step forward​

Restoration of Via Rail service to Peterborough takes another step forward

54 contractors express interest in proposed high-frequency Toronto-Quebec City service that would go through Peterborough.

www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com

 

[Quirky]

Recommend change title to Cost of housing in southern ontario.

 

[mariomike]

Canada-wide,

Canadian Housing Market Report May. 17th, 2024 | Interactive Map - WOWA.ca

Canada’s housing market is seeing a strong spring as some provinces break all-time price records. The national benchmark home price was $735,900 in April 2024.

wowa.ca

 

[Kirkhill]

I used to take the VIA Rail Budd car. It ran from Union to Havelock - stopping at Peterborough.

Last week took the GO bus.

Depart Oshawa VIA Rail at 0959. Arrived downtown Peterborough 1059. Cost $7.23.

Looks like VIA might be getting back on track. That would be fantastic to see them resume passenger rail service to the area.

Restoration of Via Rail service to Peterborough takes another step forward​

Restoration of Via Rail service to Peterborough takes another step forward

54 contractors express interest in proposed high-frequency Toronto-Quebec City service that would go through Peterborough.

www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com

That car was my introduction to Canada and Peterborough. The first call of the conductor on the line: "Aaayyy Gin Cooooouurt!" We knew we were in Canada then.

 

[Kirkhill]

Canadian Average Price - $650,140

Two Canadas - $895,400 and $376,678

Province	Average Price	Monthly Change	Annual Change
British Columbia	$958,424	-1.00%	5.00%
Ontario	$832,376	-2.80%	0.30%
Average	$895,400	-1.90%	2.65%

Province	Average Price	Monthly Change	Annual Change
Quebec	$476,453	-0.50%	6.00%
Alberta	$445,190	-2.00%	4.00%
Nova Scotia	$418,032	-4.00%	8.00%
Prince Edward Island	$390,876	-3.00%	2.00%
Manitoba	$358,167	2.00%	4.00%
Newfoundland and Labrador	$312,108	2.40%	4.00%
New Brunswick	$307,910	0.70%	13.70%
Saskatchewan	$304,689	-0.30%	-1.00%
Average	$376,678	-0.59%	5.09

Price of a house in the Soo (Sault Ste Marie) in Ontario is $295,400
Price of a house in the GTA in Ontario is $1,082,496

Price of a house in Prince Rupert in BC is $391,400
Price of a house in the GVA in BC is $1,283,729

Canada doesn't have a housing crisis.
It has a jobs crisis or a regional development crisis or an immigration crisis.

 

[GR66]

I used to take the VIA Rail Budd car. It ran from Union to Havelock - stopping at Peterborough.

Last week took the GO bus.

Depart Oshawa VIA Rail at 0959. Arrived downtown Peterborough 1059. Cost $7.23.

Looks like VIA might be getting back on track. That would be fantastic to see them resume passenger rail service to the area.

Restoration of Via Rail service to Peterborough takes another step forward​

Restoration of Via Rail service to Peterborough takes another step forward

54 contractors express interest in proposed high-frequency Toronto-Quebec City service that would go through Peterborough.

www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com

What discounts are you getting?

From the VIA Rail website:
08:32 train from Union Station arrives at Oshawa 09:08 (36min) - $47 Economy Fare
GO bus from Oshawa station 10:13 to Peterborough 11:38 (1hr 25min plus 1hr 5min wait) - $13.59 Presto Fare
So 3hrs and 6 minutes and $60.59 each way ($121.18 round trip) compared to a 1-1/2 hour to 2hr 10 min drive (according to Google Maps for a weekday morning).
Who's doing that commute on public transit to work each day?

 

[Kirkhill]

What discounts are you getting?

From the VIA Rail website:
08:32 train from Union Station arrives at Oshawa 09:08 (36min) - $47 Economy Fare
GO bus from Oshawa station 10:13 to Peterborough 11:38 (1hr 25min plus 1hr 5min wait) - $13.59 Presto Fare
So 3hrs and 6 minutes and $60.59 each way ($121.18 round trip) compared to a 1-1/2 hour to 2hr 10 min drive (according to Google Maps for a weekday morning).
Who's doing that commute on public transit to work each day?

Why are we talking about daily commutes? How about working in Peterborough and visiting clients in Toronto? Or Ottawa? Kingston? Montreal? Vancouver? That was my father's life from 1966 to his death in 1983. And I started on the same track in Peterborough but my employer decided to relocate from Peterborough to Markham in 1985. That was about the time that they shuttered the rest of the factories in Peterborough.

Was there a pressing economic need to relocate? I still haven't heard one. Fad? Policy? Votes for Markham?

PS drive time from Peterborough to Union Station is 1:29, to Pearson is 1:21 and to Markham is 1:06.

 

[GR66]

Why are we talking about daily commutes? How about working in Peterborough and visiting clients in Toronto? Or Ottawa? Kingston? Montreal? Vancouver? That was my father's life from 1966 to his death in 1983. And I started on the same track in Peterborough but my employer decided to relocate from Peterborough to Markham in 1985. That was about the time that they shuttered the rest of the factories in Peterborough.

Was there a pressing economic need to relocate? I still haven't heard one. Fad? Policy? Votes for Markham?

PS drive time from Peterborough to Union Station is 1:29, to Pearson is 1:21 and to Markham is 1:06.

Technically nothing is stopping that from happening now...except people aren't doing it en masse. Why? I guess most people's lives don't consist of living in one location and occasionally visiting clients in a distant location. Great for those that can do it but you're not going to re-settle the bulk of the population that way or they already would have done that due to the high cost of housing in the major urban centres.

There is a very big difference between what is hypothetically possible and what realistically happens.

As to the public transit question, it was raised above as a potential option for people to live outside Toronto to avoid the high housing costs (and the way it was worded suggested a quick transit and low cost). Neither are true and that doesn't even take into account the fact that you will likely still have travel requirements at both ends of the fixed public transit links to deal with.

And as far as your claim that the travel time from Pearson to Peterborough is 1:21 I laugh in your general direction. I've regularly taken more time than that to go from Pearson to the Don Valley on the 401 during a work day. Again, what is hypothetically possible vs what actually happens in reality.

 

[mariomike]

What discounts are you getting?

Just the senior rate.

$2.65 UP Express to Union. UP Express trains depart every 15 minutes, 19 ½ hours a day between 05:30 and 01:00.

$5.49 Union GO train to Oshawa GO Rail Depart 0839. Arrive 0941.

$7.23 Oshawa VIA - GO Rail Depart: 0959. Arrive downtown Peterborough 1059.

GO bus from Oshawa station 10:13 to Peterborough 11:38 (1hr 25min plus 1hr 5min wait) - $13.59 Presto Fare

GO runs several "hotshots" to and from Oshawa GO -VIA Rail and downtown Peterborough on Thursdays and Fridays.
Non-stop. Direct trip.

https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1692814485/Documents/GO/full-schedules/FS02092023/TABLE88.pdf

Trip is exactly 60 minutes.

$7.23 on my PRESTO.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Transit and transportation are needed wherever we fail to locate work close to home.

 

[Kirkhill]

And as far as your claim that the travel time from Pearson to Peterborough is 1:21 I laugh in your general direction. I've regularly taken more time than that to go from Pearson to the Don Valley on the 401 during a work day. Again, what is hypothetically possible vs what actually happens in reality.

And yet another reason not to live in Toronto.
Skip the 401 and the Don Valley.
115 - 407 - 427 and come in from the north.

And, again, nobody is talking about resettling the bulk of the population but, instead, opening up more options. And one of those options was a viable course of action from ca 1904 to 1985 when communications weren't as good as they are now. This is about giving people choices.

Peterborough - Oakville 1:46
Peterborough - Markham 1:06
Peterborough - Scarborough 1:08
Peterborough - Nathan Philips Square 1:29

1:21 I laugh in your general direction. I've regularly taken more time than that to go from Pearson to the Don Valley on the 401 during a work day

 

[GR66]

And yet another reason not to live in Toronto.
Skip the 401 and the Don Valley.
115 - 407 - 427 and come in from the north.

And, again, nobody is talking about resettling the bulk of the population but, instead, opening up more options. And one of those options was a viable course of action from ca 1904 to 1985 when communications weren't as good as they are now. This is about giving people choices.

Peterborough - Oakville 1:46
Peterborough - Markham 1:06
Peterborough - Scarborough 1:08
Peterborough - Nathan Philips Square 1:29

People already have those choices. Those that have the opportunity to make them likely already have. Adding a 3hr, $60 one way transit option to an existing 2hr (let's be realistic) driving option isn't likely to change many more minds so I'm not really sure what your point is.

My wife worked from home during Covid but is back to a mandatory 2 days per week (plus one additional Friday and Monday per month) in the office. We're currently an hour (on a good traffic day) commute to her office in Markham. The transit option is 3-1/2 hours. We're not interested in moving extending her commute for the 2+ days she goes to the office by moving further out. I'm willing to bet most people in similar circumstances are the same. If she could work 100% from home moving might be an option but we have my work, my living at home son's work and family considerations to take into account as well. Just like most people.

You try to make it sound like it's a simple solution to complex issues. There is a reason most people live and work where they live and work. You can't just look at the (best case) travel time between two points on Google Maps and suggest people should move there instead.

 

[Kirkhill]

People already have those choices. Those that have the opportunity to make them likely already have. Adding a 3hr, $60 one way transit option to an existing 2hr (let's be realistic) driving option isn't likely to change many more minds so I'm not really sure what your point is.

My wife worked from home during Covid but is back to a mandatory 2 days per week (plus one additional Friday and Monday per month) in the office. We're currently an hour (on a good traffic day) commute to her office in Markham. The transit option is 3-1/2 hours. We're not interested in moving extending her commute for the 2+ days she goes to the office by moving further out. I'm willing to bet most people in similar circumstances are the same. If she could work 100% from home moving might be an option but we have my work, my living at home son's work and family considerations to take into account as well. Just like most people.

You try to make it sound like it's a simple solution to complex issues. There is a reason most people live and work where they live and work. You can't just look at the (best case) travel time between two points on Google Maps and suggest people should move there instead.

Unless you happen to have lived in Peterborough, Oshawa, Whitby, Scarborough and Willowdale and worked on the back roads from Kingston to Kitchener and from Kingston Road to Spadina Avenue while flying out of Pearson nationally and internationally?

If I like the area so much why did I move? Because I prefer the prairies.

 

[GR66]

Unless you happen to have lived in Peterborough, Oshawa, Whitby, Scarborough and Willowdale and worked on the back roads from Kingston to Kitchener and from Kingston Road to Spadina Avenue while flying out of Pearson nationally and internationally?

If I like the area so much why did I move? Because I prefer the prairies.

Huzzah for you. What does that have to do with the rest of us?

Edited to add:

From Google Maps for a weekday commute from Peterborough to Union Station for 9am arrival which is a much more realistic travel time than your quoted 1hr 29min

1 hr 40 min to 2 hr 30 min (140 km)​

via ON-115 S and ON-407 W​

and that's taking a toll highway. Avoiding the expense of the 407...

1 hr 50 min to 3 hr (140 km)​

via ON-115 S and ON-401 W​

 

[Kirkhill]

Huzzah for you. What does that have to do with the rest of us?

You're right. Nothing at all.

 

[mariomike]

Price of a house in the Soo (Sault Ste Marie) in Ontario is $295,400
Price of a house in the GTA in Ontario is $1,082,496

Took a drive up to Sault Ste Marie a couple of summers ago. Nice place.

Experience Winter in Sault Ste. Marie - Tourism Sault Ste. Marie

Downhill Skiing, Cross-Country Skiing, Snowshoeing, skating, Snowmobiling, Fat Biking and more - the Soo is a true Winter experience

saulttourism.com

 

[dapaterson]

Took a drive up to Sault Ste Marie a couple of summers ago. Nice place.

Book in advance, and Porter from YAM to YTZ isn't that expensive.

 

[lenaitch]

Why are we talking about daily commutes? How about working in Peterborough and visiting clients in Toronto? Or Ottawa? Kingston? Montreal? Vancouver? That was my father's life from 1966 to his death in 1983. And I started on the same track in Peterborough but my employer decided to relocate from Peterborough to Markham in 1985. That was about the time that they shuttered the rest of the factories in Peterborough.

Was there a pressing economic need to relocate? I still haven't heard one. Fad? Policy? Votes for Markham?

PS drive time from Peterborough to Union Station is 1:29, to Pearson is 1:21 and to Markham is 1:06.

I'm curious how you connect 'votes' to a company's decision to relocate operations. Are you alleging that the government paid a company to move out of Peterborough? Sure, it was government policy the build roads and canals - that's what governments do. I'm not aware that there was much, if any, government funding of what eventually became the Midland Railway network (central Ontario). Of course they needed government approval - it's a regulated industry.

A lot of our manufacturing industry, particularly small town/city, was US branch plant or owned subsidiary, and much of that relocated offshore or was repatriated.