Cost of housing in Canada

[Good2Golf]

You're correct. That's my question, who did it; and without a permit ?

Ah, tracking. Yeah, this seems to have a bit more nuance to it than a blindside…although still…the RM must not have a PR team…

 

[Remius]

Evicting early in the school year/ start of winter is nigh on indefensible, and the kids should not have to bear the brunt of this, but I'd have to say that "what comes across" the most out of that article is how well it was written to evoke sympathy and how little effort went in to researching and accurately depicting what is almost certainly a messy conflict in which McDermot-Fouts' hands are considerably less clean than portrayed.

10 minutes in the Whitehead site council minutes would have shown the the reporter that council denied the application for Hydro service to be added to the property in 2014 right around the same time that the permit/mobile home application was denied. 2016 a hydro service was approved- expressly for agricultural livestock use. It also would have let them see council statements about the order. So they applied, got denied (reasons not given, neither in this article or another I found), went ahead did it anyway, got found out years later, multi-year legal fight begins.

This looks a lot more like 9 years of thumbing their nose at the RM living in an unpermitted dwelling with a hydro service they lied about to get finally came to a head vs. "9 years later now it's an issue."

Edit- story from 2014

I have to agree with you. 9 years seems pretty generous before finally being taken to task.

The article is a bit misleading as well as it looks like the intent is to link this dispute with the actual homeless veteran issue. And given the time of year I guess it’s meant to gain support for their issue/plight.

Clearly there is more to this story.

 

[Furniture]

Evicting early in the school year/ start of winter is nigh on indefensible, and the kids should not have to bear the brunt of this, but I'd have to say that "what comes across" the most out of that article is how well it was written to evoke sympathy and how little effort went in to researching and accurately depicting what is almost certainly a messy conflict in which McDermot-Fouts' hands are considerably less clean than portrayed.

10 minutes in the Whitehead site council minutes would have shown the the reporter that council denied the application for Hydro service to be added to the property in 2014 right around the same time that the permit/mobile home application was denied. 2016 a hydro service was approved- expressly for agricultural livestock use. It also would have let them see council statements about the order. So they applied, got denied (reasons not given, neither in this article or another I found), went ahead did it anyway, got found out years later, multi-year legal fight begins.

This looks a lot more like 9 years of thumbing their nose at the RM living in an unpermitted dwelling with a hydro service they lied about to get finally came to a head vs. "9 years later now it's an issue."

Edit- story from 2014

Sounds like a dispute with neighbours that don't want anyone building on the land next to them, that turned into a legal mess. Both parties have likely done dumb things, but kicking people out on 30 Oct, is a pretty low move.

I've lived in small communities, and I've seen/heard about the dumb things people do to keep "outsiders" away.

The land my parents build their house on was "swampy, and no good for a home" when they bought... They used fill to build up around the house, and have never had water in the basement since it was built in 1979. My parents were locals, and the zoning laws were less draconian back then, so they didn't have any issues.

 

[Furniture]

But it looks like the hook-up was approved, but for the cattle outbuilding only. I wonder who MacGuyver’d the mains into the mobile home?

Could have easily been an electrician, RP OPs has ED Techs. I know my brother used to do jobs for people back when he was still in.

 

[Good2Golf]

Could have easily been an electrician, RP OPs has ED Techs. I know my brother used to do jobs for people back when he was still in.

Not sure about MB, but in ON, it would have to be a licensed electrical contractor (LEC)…for ESA-approved work. Pretty sure homeowners themselves can’t mess with a mains supply to a dwelling that would otherwise require a disconnect.

 

[Remius]

Wouldn’t be hard for anyone with even a small amount of electrical skills.

 

[Good2Golf]

Wouldn’t be hard for anyone with even a small amount of electrical skills.

I don’t doubt that, but the issue appears the legitimacy (lack thereof) of work that was *done with a permit. It’s not just some DIY shed building, electrical done wrong has implications both for those downstream of the work, and upstream to hydro electricians working the supply/distribution side.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Sounds like a dispute with neighbours that don't want anyone building on the land next to them, that turned into a legal mess.

Could be, but there's also the fact that not a single member remains from the government that denied their application in 2014, and only one councillor (now Reeve) from the one that approved the livestock/hydro application. Two full election cycles, 3 councils (each with near wholesale turnover). No change in verdict.

And even if pressures that lead to their denial did have some parochial motivations, the facts remain that we live in a rules based society, that
continuing without approvals, lying to gain infrastructure, etc. etc. aren't acceptable actions.

but kicking people out on 30 Oct, is a pretty low move.

Completely agreed. If nothing else an eviction should have been stayed until spring. Ideally avoided all together. But removal of unpermitted structures is a pretty common remedy in situations like this, because otherwise you're tacitly condoning anyone with means and willingness to do whatever the hell they want and pay for forgiveness later.

 

[lenaitch]

Not sure about MB, but in ON, it would have to be a licensed electrical contractor (LEC)…for ESA-approved work. Pretty sure homeowners themselves can’t mess with a mains supply to a dwelling that would otherwise require a disconnect.

Wouldn’t be hard for anyone with even a small amount of electrical skills.

In Ontario, the power company would want evidence that either the ESA or an ESA-approved electrician has approved the work. If it was truly a pre-built (modular/engineered/mobile) home it would be delivered with that approval attached.

In Ontario, the utility owns up to and including the meter except any poles on private property. Sure, an experienced DIYer could do the work, but you can't hook up to mains power and provide your own meter. If nothing else, you're dealing with thousands of amps with no overcurrent protection.

I agree that there is more to the story on both sides. You can't continually thumb your nose at the 'authority having jurisdiction'. On the municipal side, what is good time to toss somebody out?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, it seems that if your parents didn't own a house you're not likely to either:

Parents and children in the Canadian housing market: Does parental property ownership increase the likelihood of homeownership for their adult children?​

Overview​

This article examines the relationship between parental residential property ownership and the likelihood of their children born in the 1990s to own residential property in 2021. This is the first in a series of articles investigating intergenerational housing outcomes in Canada.

Key findings​

• People born in the 1990s whose parents were homeowners were twice as likely to own a home in 2021 than those whose parents were non-homeowners.
• The adult children of multiple-property owners were nearly three times more likely to be homeowners in 2021 than those whose parents were non-homeowners.
• The majority (52.8%) of people born in the 1990s who own multiple properties also have parents who own multiple properties, while 10% of those who own multiple properties have non-homeowner parents.
• The adult children of multiple-property owners earn higher incomes on average than those of non-homeowners and single-property owners.
• Parental property ownership is positively associated with their adult children’s likelihood of homeownership when the adult children’s income, age and province of residence are held constant.
• The positive effect associated with parental property ownership is highest for children with individual incomes below $80,000.
• Among all provinces covered, the rate of homeownership for people born in the 1990s is lowest in British Columbia.

Parents and children in the Canadian housing market: Does parental property ownership increase the likelihood of homeownership for their adult children?

This study examines the likelihood of 1990s-born children to be homeowners in 2021 based on the residential property ownership status of their parents. This analysis is based on administrative data from the Canadian Housing Statistics Program for eight Canadian provinces and three Canadian...

www150.statcan.gc.ca

 

[dapaterson]

Solution: don't have kids.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Solution: don't have kids.

I understand this was sarcasm, right ?

But if not how do you draw that conclusion?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I plan to use the equity in my house to provide the down-payment for my kid's first home, should that be their desire. As most other home owning parents have done.

My parents didn't own a home, so my VAC blood money- er- disability payout filled in that hole. If I can get them part of the way into building equity rather than handing twice much over in rent to a land lord; money well spent.

Generational wealth is a thing, not solely reserved for the Rothchilds and Hiltons of the world.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Generational wealth is a thing, not solely reserved for the Rothchilds and Hiltons of the world.

Yup, and I'm finding that there's a very fine line to walk between instilling the values of independence/ work ethic etc. by raising for and enforcing self-sufficiency (with an end of life wealth transfer) and making early and efficient use of intergenerational wealth through active planning.

I think that reduced numbers of children are really what's enabling these conversations to be had at lower income/wealth levels.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I plan to use the equity in my house to provide the down-payment for my kid's first home, should that be their desire. As most other home owning parents have done.

My parents didn't own a home, so my VAC blood money- er- disability payout filled in that hole. If I can get them part of the way into building equity rather than handing twice much over in rent to a land lord; money well spent.

Generational wealth is a thing, not solely reserved for the Rothchilds and Hiltons of the world.

We bring both our daughters to the financial planning meetings we have with our planner. so they get to see what we are doing with the money and how we try to use it for our and their long term benefit.

 

[Remius]

We bring both our daughters to the financial planning meetings we have with our planner. so they get to see what we are doing with the money and how we try to use it for our and their long term benefit.

Absolutely smart thing to do.

I’ve had similar conversations with my parents. Not for any benefit to me but to discuss their wishes, their decisions etc while they can still communicate them. Took some doing at first since they were brought up to avoid that sort of conversation.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Nailed it...


Short-term rental ban will cost hundreds of millions of dollars

The province’s Short-Term Rental Accommodations Act, passed a mere 10 days after being introduced, should have been called the Hotel Monopoly Act.


A commentary by a past president of the Victoria Real Estate Board and a founding member of the Greater Victoria Short-Term Rental Alliance.


There are 634 legal, licensed, tax-paying short-term rentals in Victoria. All were protected by their legal non-conforming status after the city removed transient use from more than 140 property zones in 2018.


Protected, that is, until the passage of Bill 35, the Short-Term Rental Accommodations Act, which received royal assent on Oct. 26, a mere 10 days after being introduced.

The act should have been called the Hotel Monopoly Act, as it effectively wipes out locally owned private vacation rentals, leaving no accommodation alternatives for the travelling public, visiting medical professionals, film and television productions, patients travelling for treatment and anyone else for whom a hotel stay makes little sense.

The act is based on a McGill University study that was wholly funded by the hotel industry. This is not a secret; the funding source is in the report.

Victoria lobbied for the removal of legal non-conforming status for short-term rental owners, and were rewarded. Section 36 of the act removes legal non-conforming protections from this very specific class of property owner with no compensation.

The hotel lobby declared total victory for their corporate multinational clients in an email blast bragging that the government had adopted all of their report’s recommendations.


Comment: Short-term rental ban will cost hundreds of millions of dollars

 

[Kirkhill]

The cause of the Canadian housing affordability crisis has always been pretty simple: There are too few homes.

FIRST READING: Ottawa could fix housing if it felt like it. They did it before

In the 1970s, Canada decisively tamed a housing shortage via low immigration and an explosion in home-building

nationalpost.com

38,454,327 Canadians in 2022
437,180 immigrants (1.14% of the population)
607,782 non-permanent residents (1.58% of the population)

219,942 new home completions ( 1 new home for every 175 Canadians)

2022
--------
1978

246,533 new home completions ( 1 new home for every 97 Canadians)

96,000 non-permanent residents (0.4% of the population)
86,300 immigrants (0.4% of the population)
23,962,690 Canadians in 1978



That pretty much sums up the problem

Our supply rate in 2022 is only 90% of what it was in 1978.

Our demand (immigrants and non permanent) is 3 times what it was in 1978.

Our net availability is half of what it was in 1978. We are only meeting half the demand that we were managing in 1978.


-----

None of the 1970s property boom was by accident. The sheer volume of new homes hitting the market was the end result of a federal government that openly vowed to put its middle and working classes into respectable accommodation — and actually meant it.

“We must … not only improve the operation of private markets in order to accelerate the total output of housing but we must also stimulate the provision of modest accommodation for low-income people,” Liberal MP Robert Andras — a perennial Pierre Trudeau cabinet member — declared in 1969.

Poverty had been on the upswing throughout the 1960s, and the solution pitched by the Liberal government was to throw up whole cities of new homes practically overnight, so that these growing ranks of Canadian poor would at least have a place to live.

In the 1970s, the housing-assistance activities of the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation “exploded,” according to one history of the era.

A latticework of loan guarantees, tax credits and direct subsidies emerged to put millions of Canadians within reach of home ownership, and the construction market roared into high gear to meet the new demand.

Meanwhile, the Canada Rental Supply Program extended interest-free loans to developers who built social housing, and a firehose of federal monies was directed at subsidized housing projects.

“In the heyday of Canadian social housing from 1965 to 1990, 10 percent of total housing production was non-profit, public or co-operative,” wrote housing analyst Greg Suttor in a 2017 profile of this period.

But if there’s one glaring roadblock preventing Canada from pursuing a second all-out building boom, it’s the fact that today’s municipalities are way more obstinate than their 1970s predecessors. Restrictive zoning laws and other thickets of municipal red tape have largely kneecapped any ability of developers to build with the feverish intensity of the 1970s.

In the 1970s, said Lafleur, “the feds were serious about expanding affordable rental options and the municipalities didn’t really get in the way.”

Cities didn’t get in the way of any new development, really. “The image of rapid growth in … major urban centres was widely accepted in the late 1960s and early 1970s,” read a 1975 report by the Science Council of Canada. Vancouver in the late 1960s and early 1970s was so uncompromisingly pro-development that there exist images of its mayor riding a wrecking ball.

And in Toronto the "Tiny Perfect Mayor" was David Crombie.


The biggest difference between then and now, aside from the much lower rate of immigration, was "Optimism". People believed that there would be a tomorrow for their kids and planned accordingly.

The Zero Growth Agenda hadn't kicked in and stolen the future.

-----

This is the article that prompted this meander

'Well, you broke me; congratulations': Inside the thoughts of the Canadian economy

Dear Diary: 'Perhaps one day, surviving remnants of the Canadian economy can be preserved and slowly reintroduced into the wild'

nationalpost.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Re Zero Growth.

How come Canada has persisted in growing while at the same time proclaiming the Zero Growth Agenda of sustainability?

Population Growth	P=Poekt
Time Line		1978 to 2022	2015 to 2022
2022 Population	P	38,454,327​	38,454,327​
Original Population	Po	23,962,690​	35,700,000​
e	e	e	e
Growth Rate	k
Years of Growth	t	44​	7​
	P/Po	1.604758356​	1.077152017​
	ekt	1.604758356​	1.077152017​
	ln(ekt)	0.472973188​	0.074320537​
	kt	0.472973188​	0.074320537​
Annual Growth Rate	k	0.010749391​	0.01061722​
Annual Growth Rate	k	1.07%​	1.06%​

We have been growing at an annualized rate of 1.07% since 1978 and that has continued under Justin.

From the article above

“In the heyday of Canadian social housing from 1965 to 1990,...

Is it just coincidence that that period coincides with massive government borrowing, high interest rates and high inflation and that its end coincides with the IMF declaring that Canada was broke and Jean Chretien's "Decade of Darkness" and "Offloading to the Provinces"?

If we believe in Zero Growth then perhaps we should stop growing? Bacteria predict the result of that course of action.

 

[Remius]

Interesting concept.

'We can live:' How Fredericton's growing, affordable tiny home community offers hope

Nestled next to a Walmart on Fredericton’s Northside sits a new community with row upon row of tiny homes. Here's how the 12 Neighbours project is offering residents a chance at hope.

www.ctvnews.ca