DEO Infantry Officer

[hoote]

Hi, I am wondering if there are any DEO Infantry Officers who recently completed phase 4 on this forum.

If so, can you please tell me the timeline of your training? 
What I want to know is how long are BOTC, CAP, Phase 3 and Phase 4 and how are they spread out?  My wife and I are trying to anticipate what will happen to our family of five for the next few years if I get into to BOTC for Jan 06. 
Thanks.

 

[Tebo]

Being an ROTP entry officer I have brought in a ringer:

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Hey Dude,

The current time line for training under the DEO entry plane is as follows:

You will start your 14 week IAP/BOTP (basic or boot camp) in St Jean, Quebec. On completion of BOTP you will stay in St Jean and begin the mandatory 8 month second language course (either french or English). That is unless you are bilingual. If you are bilang, you will be tested and if you meet the standard for bilingualism then you will bypass the SLC and be posted directly to CFB Gagetown. If you are not bilang then you will do the 8 month SLC and then be sent to the Gage for your MOC training. Once you arrive in Gagetown you will start your training with the 11 week CAP course (common army phase). When you finish that you will go on to the 12 week Phase III (now called D.P. 1.1). Finally, after Phase III you will then start the 16 week Phase IV course (now called D.P. 1.2) . After Phase IV you will be posted to a Regiment. The process from IAP/BOTP to Phase IV will take a minimum of 2 years or longer depending on when the courses are being run. Phase III is only run twice a year and Phase IV is only run once a year. Keep in mind that you will be on a restricted posting, which means that the Army will not pay to move your family or effects until you have completed Phase IV. It is possible to apply to have the restricted posting lifted but it is subject to approval and not a sure thing. In other words, you may be away from your family (or have to pay to move them yourself) for the entire time that you are in the training system. Hope this helps.
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A few additions on my part. 

First, CAP serials run year round, DP 1.1 in the spring and summer, and DP 1.2 summer only.  This setup makes it highly favourable to complete the spring DP 1.1 and roll right into DP 1.2 and forego the one year wait that would accompany the summer DP 1.1 option.  With this knowledge you should be able to map out the best possibly scenario and even attempt SLT bypass if required on a quality of life argument.  However, such moves would best be made near completion of BOTC at least. 

Also, failures, changes in the system, family emergencies or what have you may disrupt your training path at any time.  This factors huge with loved ones who may become attached to the best possible finish date and react poorly when forced to wait longer.  Hope for the best, plan for the worst and ensure the family does the same thing by avoiding lofty expectations. 

Many more things could be said on the matter and I welcome further questions on your part.

Best Regards

 

[MdB]

I had this question earlier in mind. You answered it very thoroughly.

I'd have a question. I heard that SLT is not necessarily 8 months long. It's up to 8 months depending what SL skills you already have. Would you have any hint about that?

I know BMQ/SQ will be merged. Firstly, is it the same thing with IAP/BOTC and CAP? And if so, would it change the aforementioned training schedule?


Note for the Mod: this thread belongs to Training, not Infantry.

 

[hoote]

Tebo, you are amazing!  I have been looking for a straight up answer like that for a year now but have been unsuccessful!  Thank you very much for that.  Give me a bit to digest all that and I may return with a follow up question. 

Thanks again!
Hoote

Oh and I posted it in infantry because I thought I would be more likely to find an actual Infantry Officer than in the training or recruiting forums.

 

[hoote]

OK I am back.

I lived in Quebec for 2 years where I learned to speak french.  Now I am a bit rusty but for the most part I am functionally bilingual.  Do you know to what standard one must be able to speak french to bypass SLT?  Or do you know how I would go about using the quality of life argument to bypass SLT?

Thanks,
Hoote

 

[DrSize]

What exactly do you do for say the year while you are waiting to get on course (Phase 4)??

 

[Tebo]

I know BMQ/SQ will be merged. Firstly, is it the same thing with IAP/BOTC and CAP? And if so, would it change the aforementioned training schedule?

IAP, BOTC and CAP come from the officer side of the house.  I am unsure of the current situation for BMQ/SQ or why it would apply to someone conducting the DEO program.  If it does apply, let me know and I can see what info I can extract from people more in the know.

I lived in Quebec for 2 years where I learned to speak french.   Now I am a bit rusty but for the most part I am functionally bilingual.   Do you know to what standard one must be able to speak french to bypass SLT?   Or do you know how I would go about using the quality of life argument to bypass SLT?

This one is tempermental and dependant on many things I lack experience with.  So here comes a waffle of an answer I hope someone else can add to.  First, rusty or not, I doubt you will score the perfect profile on the initial test, which means they can still shackle you down for eight months in an advanced course.  However, being capable looks good and boosts your chances to jump to CAP that much earlier.  This is where things get foggy for two reasons.  One, many candidates do not enjoy being away from loved ones or home to learn French - think back to junior high for illustation of how frustrating it is for some people to pick up a second language.  Consequently, your request to move on will be one of many.  Two, I am unsure to which organization you will be posted.  Posting to your recruitment center, CFLRS St-Jean or wherever changes who can step up to bat for you and try to get you course loaded.  So be aware of who 'owns you' so that your requests meet with those able to action things.  That's about the best I can do for now, hopefully some SLT junkie reads this board and can take a few minutes to clarify. 

I do know that many people did NOT do 8 months of SLT.  Phase training is/should be considered a higher priority for junior officers. 

What exactly do you do for say the year while you are waiting to get on course (Phase 4)??

Waiting for DP 1.2 for a year is the best possible waiting scenario.  DP 1.1 qualifies you to lead a dismounted infantry platoon.  Suddenly your Officer Cadet Useless status changes to that of a motivated, unattached employable officer.  If you're handy with memos, and I suggest you learn to be, you can write up a request and be off to a Reserve or Reg unit to do all sorts of jobs.  Examples I know of personally include the following: Course Officer for reserve BMQ.  Assitant Adjutant for a reserve unit.  Pl Comd for reserve unit.  Jump course.  Attacking from both ends by sending a memo up your chain while having the powers that be from your desired position send a request makes for the best results.

Now, waiting for the earlier courses proves not so beneficial.  For instance, the gap between a summer CAP and spring DP 1.1 will involve inclusion in the dreaded Personnel Awaiting Training Platoon (PAT Pl) at the Inf School.  While you may be lucky enough to draw some tasks as an enemy force rifleman supporting fall courses, you will most likely just report for general labour each day and do very little.  If you see such a situation approaching, B-Line for OPME courses or any other opportunity for gainful use of your time.

 

[ProPatria05]

A few notes on my own personal experience, for what it's worth. I am married with 2 kids, as I was when I started IAP/BOTP.

REF: SECOND LANGUAGE TRAINING
I was one of those "in-betweens" who had some French ability when I started SLT. I was tested before I started, after indicating that I had some ability to speak French. But I fell short on the oral part (the hardest one), so I started my SLT course in January 2004. I was re-tested in May, achieved the required oral level, and left St. Jean on May 21. I started CAP on May 31, 2004. I hate to contradict the esteemed Mr. Tebo  (who is a friend of mine, BTW), but Phase training does NOT take a priority and the availability of those courses will have nothing to do with when you leave St. Jean. They may test you sooner than they otherwise might have, if there is a CAP course coming up, but ONLY if they think you have the ability to pass the test(s). At any rate, the bottom line is that you WILL NOT leave St. Jean unless you (a) achieve the required profile (BAB), or (b) finish the 33-week course (whichever comes first). I tried, believe me.

Also, family situations, unless they are EXTREME, will have no impact on how long you stay in St. Jean.

REF: MOVING TO GAGETOWN
As for the move to Gagetown, I also have a bit of experience on that topic. I was posted to Gagetown "Prohibited" in May 2004, meaning the Army would not pay for my move. I said "f*** it", and paid for it myself. Moving from Ontario, having owned a house there, it was quite a costly venture (about $20G, largely real estate fees of about $11G). Immediately after CAP (August 2004), I submitted a memo requesting that my posting status be changed, on the grounds that I was going to be in Gagetown for at least 15 months (CAP May-Aug 2004, Phase 3 Jan-Apr 2005, Phase 4 May-Sep 2005). I argued that this is not a temporary posting, and it was unreasonable to expect that I be separated from my family for that long. About a month later, my request was granted. Following that, I had to submit a request to have my moving costs reimbursed in arrears. This took quite a bit longer, as the request had to go to the Director of Compensation and Benefits Administration in Ottawa. But eventually it was approved, and I was reimbursed for pretty much everything I submitted. The only real difference was that I paid 6% of selling cost for real estate fees, and they only reimbursed me 5%, which is what they pay Royal LePage for an actual Army-arranged move (doesn't sound like a lot, but made a difference of about $1,500). So, if you're willing to go through the hassle of arranging your own move, on your own time, while you're in St. Jean, and if you can eat the cost for up to 6 months before they reimburse you, then arranging and paying for your own move to Gagetown is something you may want to consider at that time.

Hope this helps.

Murph

 

[hoote]

Can anyone describe what the SLT test is like?  As I mentioned, I can speak pretty much but wondering if I can pass their test.

 

[Gill557]

Can anyone describe what the SLT test is like?   As I mentioned, I can speak pretty much but wondering if I can pass their test.

I'm sitting on SLT right now.  I can tell you the test is simply the Public Service test, which consists of two written tests 1) Reading Comprehension 2) Grammer and a telephone Oral interview.  My only advice for the interview is keep talking until they tell you to shut up.  Don't play question and simple answer with them.

Oh yeah and as a DEO you are required to have B-A-B comprehension level, Reading, Grammer, Oral.  If you don't get that its CFLS for you.

 

[hoote]

Thanks for the reply.  Do you know where I can get a "copy" of that test or something like it.  I assume so since from you said it is a public service test.
Bryce

 

[Gill557]

Thanks for the reply.   Do you know where I can get a "copy" of that test or something like it.   I assume so since from you said it is a public service test.
Bryce

Try the public service website or maybe one of the recruiting centers.  We took it during Basic and we take it before we leave CFLS.  Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[LeonTheNeon]

It is difficult to be able to take the Public Service exam.  It generally needs to be requested by a federal department as part of the screening for a job. 

It is possible that there might be a different certification you can get.  Contact your closest Human Resource & Development Canada and they'll be able to help send you in the right direction or see the link below.  They managed to hook me up with a provincial certification exam.  Although it means nothing with regards to skipping SLT it will give you some idea of where you are in terms of French proficiency.  I just took it as part of my re-entry into the CF.

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/home.shtml

 

[spqr]

Can someone clarify the family part of this conversation. 
When can my family join me and where can we live and so forth?  I have very little french and anticipate a full course.  I don't have a house to sell and an apartment is fine but what can we realistically expect.  I don't really care about relocation costs as we wouldn't move much to Quebec from Alberta.

One other little thing.  What is the pay for a DEO Inf Officer while doing all these courses?

Thanks a bunch

Rob

 

[kincanucks]

Can someone clarify the family part of this conversation. 
When can my family join me and where can we live and so forth?  I have very little french and anticipate a full course.  I don't have a house to sell and an apartment is fine but what can we realistically expect.  I don't really care about relocation costs as we wouldn't move much to Quebec from Alberta.

One other little thing.  What is the pay for a DEO Inf Officer while doing all these courses?

Thanks a bunch

Rob

I guess you are starting off as a lazy applicant.  Search.  Normally you don't get to move your family until your first posting but some have done so while on SLT but this is at your own expense.  Pay has been discussed many times so search.