Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[dapaterson]

The Legal profession enters chat and nods vigorously.

If you can't bill 200 hours a week, why did you even go to law school?

 

[KevinB]

Honestly, when I was in the Mo, the RSS staff was generally pretty awesome.
I later learned one of the WO's was a bit of a sexual predator on some of the females in the unit - but as a RSS WO he was great.
90% of the time I was there we had Gene Brown as our RSSO (6 of 7.5 years) as his retirement position - he was the former SMIG, and a brilliant resource once one could earn his tolerance and accept his sarcasm.
He replacement wasn't nearly as impressive and I had considered a dud in 2RCHA when I was with them for several Class B's and the Cyprus tour.

When we got 10/90 personnel posted in, the majority where great - and only two of what I would call lemons, but that was a Gunner, and a BDR, both whom the others had under Max Supervision anyway...
@Petard was one of those WO's and was in my (totally less) humble opinion a stellar example of the kind of WO that if more where like him, would have made 10/90 a massive success, as he mentored a number of young troops, and turned out some fantastic NCO's that where able to work in Reg Force CP's without anyone knowing there where Militia Augmentees.

However, when occasionally tasked to support PRes Training while in the PPCLI, I came across a lot of RSS staff that clearly had gone ROAD when posted to that position.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Honestly, when I was in the Mo, the RSS staff was generally pretty awesome.
I later learned one of the WO's was a bit of a sexual predator on some of the females in the unit - but as a RSS WO he was great.
90% of the time I was there we had Gene Brown as our RSSO (6 of 7.5 years) as his retirement position - he was the former SMIG, and a brilliant resource once one could earn his tolerance and accept his sarcasm.
He replacement wasn't nearly as impressive and I had considered a dud in 2RCHA when I was with them for several Class B's and the Cyprus tour.

When we got 10/90 personnel posted in, the majority where great - and only two of what I would call lemons, but that was a Gunner, and a BDR, both whom the others had under Max Supervision anyway...
@Petard was one of those WO's and was in my (totally less) humble opinion a stellar example of the kind of WO that if more where like him, would have made 10/90 a massive success, as he mentored a number of young troops, and turned out some fantastic NCO's that where able to work in Reg Force CP's without anyone knowing there where Militia Augmentees.

However, when occasionally tasked to support PRes Training while in the PPCLI, I came across a lot of RSS staff that clearly had gone ROAD when posted to that position.

We had one good RSSO, back in the mid-90s. He was the right fit, very professional, helpful, managed the full time staff well, went to the field, the full package.

I even invited him to my wedding reception....

... where he pretty much drained the open bar single handed, barfed all over himself in the washroom on the floor, and my (very large) Best Man had to throw him out

 

[Brad Sallows]

The mentoring aspect of RSS requires a deft personal touch that is probably not common. The Class A pers will range from militia bums to people who are highly accomplished/educated in their occupations and professions. A lout or an office-politics game-player ain't gonna make it.

 

[KevinB]

The mentoring aspect of RSS requires a deft personal touch that is probably not common. The Class A pers will range from militia bums to people who are highly accomplished/educated in their occupations and professions. A lout or an office-politics game-player ain't gonna make it.

I think the problem is it is very unlikely 1 person will be able to do all of what a unit needs from an RSSO.
Mostly this could be solved by getting rid of most of the PRes Offciers over Capt, with a Reg F Maj as the "unit" CO, and a senior Capt as the Adj/TrgO. But then I drift back to 30/70 formations and rationalization of the PRes to allot for an honest look at their strength.

Eventually I think under 30/70 there could indeed be some PRes Officers and SNCO's that by merit are justified to move higher into a "Reg only" swim lane - but initially I think the whole structure needs to be burned and rebuilt (along with the Reg Force...)

 

[Brad Sallows]

As long as Res F units continue to be administrative elements, it's reasonable to have Res F COs - provided the requirements of the job fall within a reasonable amount of Class A time. I suspect that amount has been exceeded, and that's one of two reasons to give up on having Res F COs (unless the jobs are converted to Class B positions). The other reason (I agree) is integration into Reg F units.

 

[dapaterson]

Last funding model I saw assumed about 100 class A days annually for a CO - the equivalent of five months full time, on top of a full time job and family.

Not sustainable. Not sensible. Yet every effort to streamline the job is fought tooth and nail. The ability to half ass it across a wide spectrum of ignorance is apparently a key selection criteria.

 

[Remius]

I have have seen more than a few COs and RSMs that had class Bs elsewhere but still did unit work on their own time and sometimes on their class B employers time as well. Also plenty of class A types that did a lot of extra work that wasn’t covered by class A.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

A problem I saw in Class B folks was the “you still have to work trg nights and weekends AND work 5 days a week”. Eg - someone who might work Cl B for Bde HQ but their unit would demand they work unit evenings and weekends (or their name might not make the next short list for Cl Bs). At one point I was at Bde HQ and the Bde Comd heard about this thru the G3 (who was the sort-of Career Mgr for all the RSS) - the Bde Boss said “this will stop. Immediately “.

It didn’t of course…the Regimental Mafias went on with their ways.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Priority of work and cuts attendant thereto have to come from the top.

 

[dapaterson]

Recruiting and training to OFP should not be unit level activities. Formation level depot units should handle that.

That suggestion alone gets you kicked off Christmas card lists.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A problem I saw in Class B folks was the “you still have to work trg nights and weekends AND work 5 days a week”. Eg - someone who might work Cl B for Bde HQ but their unit would demand they work unit evenings and weekends (or their name might not make the next short list for Cl Bs). At one point I was at Bde HQ and the Bde Comd heard about this thru the G3 (who was the sort-of Career Mgr for all the RSS) - the Bde Boss said “this will stop. Immediately “.

It didn’t of course…the Regimental Mafias went on with their ways.

One of the biggest issues in employing Class B folks in Class A unit positions was 'conflict of interest', IMHO.

For example, when a Class B staff Officer, who is supposed to be holding units accountable for this and that, is also employed as a unit's OC/CO there can be a serious erosion of accountability.

It also absolved the unit's leadership from the responsibility of developing Class A people for those positions, and managing their succession plans effectively. Again, for example, tasking the Reg F RSSO as Adjt - a really important Regiment specific job - is putting a bullet into both feet in many ways.

 

[ArmyRick]

A problem I saw in Class B folks was the “you still have to work trg nights and weekends AND work 5 days a week”. Eg - someone who might work Cl B for Bde HQ but their unit would demand they work unit evenings and weekends (or their name might not make the next short list for Cl Bs). At one point I was at Bde HQ and the Bde Comd heard about this thru the G3 (who was the sort-of Career Mgr for all the RSS) - the Bde Boss said “this will stop. Immediately “.

It didn’t of course…the Regimental Mafias went on with their ways.

I was 7 years in Meaford as a Class B SGT/WO. I was instructing on back to back courses (mostly DP1 infantry/SQ) and had ZERO time to commit to helping out my home unit.
I used to get quite pissed when some Class B chair jockey working in like OPS would ask "why don't you parade?" Its a whole lot different when someone working in a 9-3:30 military office job and then working 8-12 hours a day or simply out in the field cosntantly.

I am a believer, you can NOT serve two masters. If your class B tasked out, then thats it.

 

[Remius]

I was 7 years in Meaford as a Class B SGT/WO. I was instructing on back to back courses (mostly DP1 infantry/SQ) and had ZERO time to commit to helping out my home unit.
I used to get quite pissed when some Class B chair jockey working in like OPS would ask "why don't you parade?" Its a whole lot different when someone working in a 9-3:30 military office job and then working 8-12 hours a day or simply out in the field cosntantly.

I am a believer, you can NOT serve two masters. If your class B tasked out, then thats it.

Situations vary. When I was class B I had no issues showing up and doing exercises. Sometimes things would conflict so my full time employer got the priority. I was lucky enough my class B employer would let me go on things like area concentrations, courses and the occasional course as an instructor if needed.

 

[ArmyRick]

Situations vary. When I was class B I had no issues showing up and doing exercises. Sometimes things would conflict so my full time employer got the priority. I was lucky enough my class B employer would let me go on things like area concentrations, courses and the occasional course as an instructor if needed.

I have been out for four years. My issue is when unit COs and RSMs don't get it and wonder why person A is on parade and person B is not when say they are both class B are employed at X.
It can be a very slippery slope IMO. I am not a fan of it. You also have to factor in other personal differences such as people with small children and people without any kids. Quality of life gets impacted. Big Time.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

When I was at 36CBG HQ as B(a) type a little over 2 decades ago now, I was transferred to a Bde HQ position. Pretty simple for me.

One of the Sgts that worked for our branch on Cl B, his position was with his unit (a Svc Bn in Sydney CB). Bde HQ transferred the funds for his pay to the Svc Bn. Therefore, the Svc Bn felt they “owned” this Sgt and would use him for whatever they felt they needed. It wasn’t really discovered what was going on until we went on site to do a SAV/TAV and a bunch of stuff wasn’t done. The mbr then disclosed to me what was happening; the reality was he was working 5 days a week for the HQ, sometimes doing Bn tasks and also any evening trg and weekend the Bn thought required which was all of them.

One return, I had a chat with the Branch Head and HQ Sgt-Major and Adjt. Phone calls were made and the HQ stopped transferring the pay to the Bn.

The underlying “threat” to the mbr from the RSM at his unit had been “if you can’t work the Bn trg then we will have to revisit if you’re suitable for class B work”.

I made a return visit later and took some happiness in letting the RSM know I was the one who, indirectly, was the one who brought the issue up to the COS for review.

This mindset was common for almost all Class B folks who “belonged” to their home unit, and the “you work Mon-Fri as well as class A trg” crap for RSS as well. Res COs weren’t popular people with their full time staffs IMO.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

When I did Class B at my unit, I worked for the RSS staff, so we got Mondays off and Friday half day to compensate for the 1.5 days the unit was parading. Not sure that was the "official policy" but it worked and for weekend exercises, various arrangement were made for time off.

 

[KevinB]

Class B personnel at units IMHO should not be -- if there is a role for a full time position, it should be a Reg Force person.
But if there are Class B folks at units, it makes sense that if the unit requires them to do their "unit job" on top of whatever they are doing class B, that they then get Time Off in Lieu from the Class B role (work days) when having to do weekends and evenings.

 

[Remius]

I have been out for four years. My issue is when unit COs and RSMs don't get it and wonder why person A is on parade and person B is not when say they are both class B are employed at X.
It can be a very slippery slope IMO. I am not a fan of it. You also have to factor in other personal differences such as people with small children and people without any kids. Quality of life gets impacted. Big Time.

I hear you. It’s not been my experience at my unit but what you say is not unheard of and may actually be the norm. We have a lot of people on class B so I guess it’s managed with that expectation. People that parade voluntarily there do so because they want to not because they are forced to. But if anyone wants to still step up there are still expectations that they do the job they want to do. If they can’t then a transfer to the appropriate PRL is all that is needed. In fact, I think Div policy is that anyone not succession planned must transfer to whatever PRL they work for. You’d be surprised how many people on Class B don’t want to transfer.

I did because as much as I liked the pay from full time service I wanted to still do the field stuff and keep my skills up to date.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

When I did Class B at my unit, I worked for the RSS staff, so we got Mondays off and Friday half day to compensate for the 1.5 days the unit was parading. Not sure that was the "official policy" but it worked and for weekend exercises, various arrangement were made for time off.

The Bde HQ did this, and the Bde policy was also that full time staff would get CTOs for required attendance on Class A trg events. We worked every Thurs night and 1 weekend a month from Sept-June and therefore had either every Monday or Friday off (managed at the Branch Head level). It was a decent system that condensed a full work week into 4 days, 3 weeks of the month and one week that seemed exceptionally long per month. It was fantastic in the summer when Cl A trg was on pause.

Some units would make the RSSO the Adjt, and also an equivalent position to Battle Capt for the F Ech. And then expected all work to do done to the std for both positions.