Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[observor 69]

My home town had a retired reg force officer commute on a three hour drive to his position as LCOL/CO. But he had also served as a private in the same unit in a previous life. 

Not knowing how this worked out but it would appear to be a happy coincidence.

 

[R031button]

We've also built a system where we need to churn out, on an annual basis, 40 LCols (~120 units on a three year cycle).  If we reduce that number we may have better luck and a better quality line.

While I agree with the idea that we need to cut the number of reserve HQ's (and therefore CO's) the problem comes when the prospective majors start hitting the bottle neck. How do we keep those officers motivated and driven, even without reward? Do we start recruiting less officers? Then who do we have to cover the officer heavy reserve domain of cimic? Or do we just let officers stagnate in their positions? Or worse yet, have no positions for said officers?

 

[George Wallace]

Recruiting less officers wouldn't be an answer, as the attrition rate between O/Cdt and Major is too great.  You would eventually find that the well had run dry of qualified Majors to promote higher.  The problem may be in the retention of too many in the senior ranks, who may be stagnating, if nothing more than holding up the promotions of more junior officers.

 

[dapaterson]

While I agree with the idea that we need to cut the number of reserve HQ's (and therefore CO's) the problem comes when the prospective majors start hitting the bottle neck. How do we keep those officers motivated and driven, even without reward? Do we start recruiting less officers? Then who do we have to cover the officer heavy reserve domain of cimic? Or do we just let officers stagnate in their positions? Or worse yet, have no positions for said officers?

Let's see...

Instructors at CFC; Bde HQ shadow positions; LFA HQ shadow positions / watch officers (weekends etc) are three that come to mind off the top of my head

Getting Majors out of the units and exposed to higher formations and awareness of the larger world would be one of the best things possible for the Reserves.  Too many officers have their first extra-regimental employment only post command.  Getting that exposure earlier in their careers would be a godsend.

(Note that the same applies also to Capts, WOs, and MWOs - get them out of unit lines so they have a better understanding of the larger Army.  And, heresy of heresies, start appointing the top Maj to command a unit - vice looking at cap badges.  Some units could use a good dose of chlorine in their gene pool...)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

While I agree with the idea that we need to cut the number of reserve HQ's (and therefore CO's) the problem comes when the prospective majors start hitting the bottle neck. How do we keep those officers motivated and driven, even without reward? Do we start recruiting less officers? Then who do we have to cover the officer heavy reserve domain of cimic? Or do we just let officers stagnate in their positions? Or worse yet, have no positions for said officers?

You want less COs, but don't mention the accompanying CWOs. You want a bevy of Majors to hang around, with no hope or reward. No mention of WOs & Sgts bottlenecking, with no line serials and no career courses. Then it's the 'officer heavy' domain of CIMIC, but no mention of all the WOs & Sgts there. Just MHO, but you sound like your real problem is Officers in general, not what they're doing. or how many we have. Like I said, just my opinion, but you should try flipping that coin before you risk sounding anymore bitter.

 

[R031button]

Noted, didn't mean to leave out CWO's, MWO's and the accompanying WO's.

I didn't say I wanted to have this bevy of majors kicking around with no hope of promotion. I was asking, if we do cut back on reserve leadership, at the top end, how do we counter the problem of having these pools of WO's and Majors, and probably Captains and Sgts, who know they probably won't get promoted? The two previous posts suggested some excellent alternatives, shadow positions at higher level formations or schools would expose reserve leaders to a good dose of, I'm going to say reality here and I'll explain myself. It's my opinion and my experience that because reserve SNCO's and Officers are used to dealing with small amounts of troops ( ie: company minus) while having a surplus of leadership. My experience with larger concentration type exercises ( Cougar Salvo, Maple Defender ) gives me the impression that some time could be spent of learning / experiencing leadership in the context of Battalions and Battle Groups.

I mentioned CIMIC as being officer heavy because it's such a high ration ( 1 per 4 man team) and because it's manned almost entirely by reservists, or it was in 08 at least.

I want to make this clear; I do not have a problem with officers at all. I have a problem with the army holding onto a structure that doesn't reflect the reality ie: a regiment that parades a platoon and can't afford to go train.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Noted, didn't mean to leave out CWO's, MWO's and the accompanying WO's.

I didn't say I wanted to have this bevy of majors kicking around with no hope of promotion. I was asking, if we do cut back on reserve leadership, at the top end, how do we counter the problem of having these pools of WO's and Majors, and probably Captains and Sgts, who know they probably won't get promoted? The two previous posts suggested some excellent alternatives, shadow positions at higher level formations or schools would expose reserve leaders to a good dose of, I'm going to say reality here and I'll explain myself. It's my opinion and my experience that because reserve SNCO's and Officers are used to dealing with small amounts of troops ( ie: company minus) while having a surplus of leadership. My experience with larger concentration type exercises ( Cougar Salvo, Maple Defender ) gives me the impression that some time could be spent of learning / experiencing leadership in the context of Battalions and Battle Groups.

One of the perceived barriers we have to break down are the 'regimental silos' we operate within. If one unit has more WOs and Majors than it needs, they should be cross posted to other units that need the help. Training plan and budget management, recruiting and personnel management is pretty much the same from one unit to another.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So how do you take a Service Bn WO and send him to an amoured unit as a Tp WO without the accompanying trade qualification. Reserve units, on the whole, are spread out. Do I make the 240 mile round trip on a Thursday night to 'help out' the next nearest armoured unit? This solution may work in some fantasy place like Toronto, with it's bevy of units, but more often than not, it's not the reality everywhere else.

 

[R031button]

So how do you take a Service Bn WO and send him to an amoured unit as a Tp WO without the accompanying trade qualification. Reserve units, on the whole, are spread out. Do I make the 240 mile round trip on a Thursday night to 'help out' the next nearest armoured unit? This solution may work in some fantasy place like Toronto, with it's bevy of units, but more often than not, it's not the reality everywhere else.

Do you really need to be trade qualified to wrangle vehicles though? I agree that it's not really a relaity in a lot of places but I think it applies in most of the larger cities in Canada.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Do you really need to be trade qualified to wrangle vehicles though? I agree that it's not really a relaity in a lot of places but I think it applies in most of the larger cities in Canada.

Your inexperience and ignorance astound me. You obviously have no concept of what other trades, that you wish to toss around willy nilly, do, or how they accomplish it. Yet there you are moving peoples careers around like chess pieces. You've just become that noob poster that comes here stating that we should buy B29s to do bombing missions, without any consideration to cost or any other factor. Just a personal wish to feel cool and wanted. I'm all done with this.

 

[McG]

Do you really need to be trade qualified to wrangle vehicles though?

If you are referring to the Tp WO example, yes you do need to be qualified in the job of the unit.

 

[R031button]

Okay, that was really just an honest question. My reserve unit, RMRang, has an RSM that's formally of the BCDs (ie not a qualified Infanteer) and an RQ from them as well. I work in WATC TSC's transport section right now, under a MSE Op WO. 

I was under the impression we were discussing the hypothetical here, I apologize.

 

[McG]

Okay, that was really just an honest question. My reserve unit, RMRang, has an RSM that's formally of the BCDs (ie not a qualified Infanteer) and an RQ from them as well. I work in WATC TSC's transport section right now, under a MSE Op WO. 

I have seem many units where the CO and/or RSM were from "outside" occupations.  These positions largely become administrators lacking the technical competencies to develop the Maj & MWO within the unit's occupation.

The ability to parachute another occupation into most positions just does not work though.  The Tp WO must be the technical expert within his occupation to supervise and develop the Sr NCO of the Tp (same of the Sgts for supervision and development of their sections/crews).

 

[R031button]

Oh, god, for some reason I read Tp as transport. Foot firmly in mouth.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Before we go too far down this road of rejecting the idea of cross-posting senior personnel to offset shortfalls in other units, it might be worthwhile to review daftandbarmy's original comment.  He was specifically commenting on general tasks, not trade specific skillsets. 

One of the perceived barriers we have to break down are the 'regimental silos' we operate within. If one unit has more WOs and Majors than it needs, they should be cross posted to other units that need the help. Training plan and budget management, recruiting and personnel management is pretty much the same from one unit to another.

The use of cross-posting could ensure those trade specific experts also remain in the chain of command where their particular skills are need most, rather than being promoted upwards into a vacuum they aren't ready to fill (and being replaced by an equally unready subordinate themselves).  I would add that the control over what positions need to be backfilled and for how long needs to rest with the receiving unit..

 

[Haggis]

Commander LFCA has already sai that this is an acceptable alternative for units that don't have the succession depth to generate thier own command teams.  Indeed, in LFCA, 33 CBG now has a commander who hails from London.  Nobody has died because of it and the brigade hasn't imploded.

 

[dapaterson]

Commander LFCA has already sai that this is an acceptable alternative for units that don't have the succession depth to generate thier own command teams.  Indeed, in LFCA, 33 CBG now has a commander who hails from London.  Nobody has died because of it and the brigade hasn't imploded.

"The brigade hasn't imploded..." any more than usual.

But then, 33 CBG has always been special...

 

[vigillis]

As a member of a unit who now has had three non Engr RSMs in a row, the unit moral can go down slightly.  It all depends on the new RSM and his attitude, and approach.

The first two did all right, and both gave a different flavour to the ranks.  Nbr three has just started and it looks as it will go swimmingly.

This is a result BTW of a mass release of WO, Sgts, and Mcpls in 94, the parachuting of two Reg F MWOs upon retirement (one did a great job), and no succession planning. 

So will the world end if a non unit mbr takes over a key position NO.  Do the younger NCOs need to be on the top of the game trade wise YES.

 

[ArmyRick]

Why not form units in a similar manner to the London Regiment in England?

Its an infantry regiment where each company represents it former unit (cap badges and titles)
An example of how it is set up
London Regiment
HQ Company
A (London Scottish) Company
B (Queen's Regiment) Company
C (City of London Fusiliers) Company
D (London Irish Rifles) Company

One example I will use is Toronto.
The Toronto Regiment
A (48th Highlanders) Company
B (Queen's Own Rifles) Company
C (Royal Regiment) Company
D (Toronto Scottish) Company

I could see this working as well in areas where regiments are spread out such and not in one city (use the battalion system) for example

1st Battalion, Ontario Light Infantry
A (RHLI) Company
B (Linc and Well) Coy
C (A and SH) Coy

2nd Battalion, Ontario Light Infantry
D (4RCR) Coy
E (E and K) Coy

etc, etc, etc.

I beleive this system can work because we organize our reserve units like that now anyways on weekend and other exercises.

Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions? Anybody want to whip a can of mashed pumpkin at my head?

 

[daftandbarmy]

The regular army has about a million Captains, Majors and Light Kernels doing marginally interesting/ value added work in various HQs around the country and elsewhere (OK, I've got a dodgy database but you get my drift).

Why not post some of them in to get some command time, especially if they have family in the area, as COs and OCs, with a mandate to help generate their Class A replacements? Heck, if they come back to the area on retirement at a later date they might even consider joining up. We could do the same with SNCOs too.

And before you try to burn me as a heretic (sorry, nomex undies) I lived through the 'Totally Forced' phase and agree that sucked. There's no way we should try a repeat of that interesting sociological experiment.  :'(