Domestic and Arctic Mobility Enhancement Project

[Prairie canuck]

and because Canadian content will come up eventually,
Dash8 400PF - 2600km at 17 tonnes Q 400 Cargo/Passenger conversion

It will get you from Kingston to Iqaluit to refuel and then onwards

 

[suffolkowner]

C130 J - 3300 km at 15 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 3.05 m x height 2.74 m x length 17.1 m

A400M - 3300 km at 37 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 4.00 m x height 3.85 m x length 17.71 m (without ramp 5.40 m )

C17 - 4480 km at 72 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.5 m x height 3.76 m x length 27 m

BvS10 Viking - 15 tonnes (GVW) 10.6 tonnes (curb)
width 2.1 m x height 2.2 m x length 7.6 m

BvS10 Beowulf - 15 tonnes (GVW) 7 tonnes (curb)
width 2.2 m x height 2.5 m x length 8 m

Is it worth adding another fleet by bringing in the A400s or are we better off adding C130s and, as Colin suggests, some long range civvy freighters?

A350F - 8700 km at 109 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.71 m x height ??? x length ???

The A330's will be to help with moving people and freight, yes?

 

[GR66]

C130 J - 3300 km at 15 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 3.05 m x height 2.74 m x length 17.1 m

A400M - 3300 km at 37 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 4.00 m x height 3.85 m x length 17.71 m (without ramp 5.40 m )

C17 - 4480 km at 72 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.5 m x height 3.76 m x length 27 m

BvS10 Viking - 15 tonnes (GVW) 10.6 tonnes (curb)
width 2.1 m x height 2.2 m x length 7.6 m

BvS10 Beowulf - 15 tonnes (GVW) 7 tonnes (curb)
width 2.2 m x height 2.5 m x length 8 m

Is it worth adding another fleet by bringing in the A400s or are we better off adding C130s and, as Colin suggests, some long range civvy freighters?

A350F - 8700 km at 109 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.71 m x height ??? x length ???

Personally I'd be tempted to add another dozen MRTTs to our order even if we don't have the pilots/need to fly them for current operations. Park and maintain them and rotate the fleet to minimize flight hours on each airframe. If a major crisis comes about there are lots of Airbus qualified pilots that are available to fly the aircraft. Bonus that they can be tankers in addition to passenger/cargo aircraft.

Same with the Herc-Js. Get another 15 to have in stock for when required. We need to start thinking about surge capabilities on top of our day to day peacetime requirements. It's faster to train people to use the equipment when required than to purchase additional equipment in the middle of a crisis (especially when all are allies are probably scrambling to purchase more at the same time).

 

[DBNSG]

In that line of thinking I wonder if our American friends would volunteer to retire a Squadron of fiscal year 2012-15 C -17's
and let Us and India top up our fleets. Three for us and five for India to get both fleets up to what they always should have been.
The President seems to be in a tell us what to do and buy mood so......

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In that line of thinking I wonder if our American friends would volunteer to retire a Squadron of fiscal year 2012-15 C -17's
and let Us and India top up our fleets. Three for us and five for India to get both fleets up to what they always should have been.
The President seems to be in a tell us what to do and buy mood so......

Unless the US has a replacement in the wings (pun intended) for the C17, I doubt the USAF would be to keen to lose that airlift capability. GR66 idea of spare C130J might be a good idea as it can extend the longevity of the fleet and we can rent storage space at the US storage areas to protect them from the elements up here.

 

[suffolkowner]

Unless the US has a replacement in the wings (pun intended) for the C17, I doubt the USAF would be to keen to lose that airlift capability. GR66 idea of spare C130J might be a good idea as it can extend the longevity of the fleet and we can rent storage space at the US storage areas to protect them from the elements up here.

the only way to get C-17's is to convince someone they dont need them I doubt it will be Uncle Sam. We got 17 C130J's they pulled that number from somewhere ?

 

[Kirkhill]

Personally I'd be tempted to add another dozen MRTTs to our order even if we don't have the pilots/need to fly them for current operations. Park and maintain them and rotate the fleet to minimize flight hours on each airframe. If a major crisis comes about there are lots of Airbus qualified pilots that are available to fly the aircraft. Bonus that they can be tankers in addition to passenger/cargo aircraft.

Same with the Herc-Js. Get another 15 to have in stock for when required. We need to start thinking about surge capabilities on top of our day to day peacetime requirements. It's faster to train people to use the equipment when required than to purchase additional equipment in the middle of a crisis (especially when all are allies are probably scrambling to purchase more at the same time).

FWIW I like that solution (hat tip to @suffolkowner as well)

Airbus A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) - MilitaryLeak.COM

The Airbus A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) is an aerial refuelling tanker and transport aircraft based on the civilian Airbus A330. The A330 MRTT has

militaryleak.com

Airbus A330 MRTT - Price, Specs, Photo Gallery, History - Aero Corner

Certified Winner The Airbus A330 MRTT / Northrop Grumman KC-45

aerocorner.com

Rumour has it that Canada has already purchased a pair of used A330-200 passenger/freight aircraft which will be converted to the MRTT format after Canada sole sources 4 more A330-MRTT tanker/freighter aircraft this year.

C130 J - 3300 km at 15 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 3.05 m x height 2.74 m x length 17.1 m

A400M - 3300 km at 37 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 4.00 m x height 3.85 m x length 17.71 m (without ramp 5.40 m )

C17 - 4480 km at 72 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.5 m x height 3.76 m x length 27 m

BvS10 Viking - 15 tonnes (GVW) 10.6 tonnes (curb)
width 2.1 m x height 2.2 m x length 7.6 m

BvS10 Beowulf - 15 tonnes (GVW) 7 tonnes (curb)
width 2.2 m x height 2.5 m x length 8 m

Is it worth adding another fleet by bringing in the A400s or are we better off adding C130s and, as Colin suggests, some long range civvy freighters?

A350F - 8700 km at 109 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.71 m x height ??? x length ???

A330-200 P2F MRTT - ??? km at 45 tonnes
cargo compartment: width 5.3 m x height 2.54 m x length 59 m (+ 2 Lower Deck Compartments)

Do the RCAF CC-130Js have the ability to be refuelled in flight?

 

[Fabius]

I don’t think any of our transport fleet can be refueled in the air?

 

[KevinB]

Admittedly the A350F is intriguing. Not a tactical transport - but large capacity and legs. 5-10 of those would be a great add


The 5 CAF C-17 could be used for more entry work if needed, with the J Herc’s and provide an appropriate airfield was seized - one could come in with LAV etc in the A350F

So you could have a Abn Bn or 2 for forcible entry and a LAV Bn for support

 

[Prairie canuck]

Maybe I'm thinking too much but.. In the unlikely scenario where an aggressor decides they need to invade and take some land in the far north I imagine their priority would be somewhere with an airfield to accommodate their follow on airlift. This is ironically where our own lack of infrastructure would limit them to very few locations. Despite the huge land mass there really is only a few places that would be susceptible and need defending would they not?

 

[GR66]

Maybe I'm thinking too much but.. In the unlikely scenario where an aggressor decides they need to invade and take some land in the far north I imagine their priority would be somewhere with an airfield to accommodate their follow on airlift. This is ironically where our own lack of infrastructure would limit them to very few locations. Despite the huge land mass there really is only a few places that would be susceptible and need defending would they not?

See...we're really military masterminds!

 

[Kirkhill]

Where there is a will there is a way.

Especially if you don't mind your landing zone looking like this

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I used to fly gliders out of Hope, saw the picture of this event in the clubhouse, could imagine it as the field looked small from a glider at 1,000'

 

[KevinB]

Maybe I'm thinking too much but.. In the unlikely scenario where an aggressor decides they need to invade and take some land in the far north I imagine their priority would be somewhere with an airfield to accommodate their follow on airlift. This is ironically where our own lack of infrastructure would limit them to very few locations. Despite the huge land mass there really is only a few places that would be susceptible and need defending would they not?

Well many forces have the ability to build airfields…
But if you look at Russia, they (used to have) a fairly robust airborne forcible entry capability, that could drop AFV’s with the Brigades and Divisions. As well as Naval Infantry that have (had) fairly impressive over the beach capabilities.

 

[lenaitch]

I used to fly gliders out of Hope, saw the picture of this event in the clubhouse, could imagine it as the field looked small from a glider at 1,000'

I wonder what they were trying to demonstrate; proof of (some) concept? I recall an episode of 'Mayday' where a commercial aircraft landed on a levee/dyke in the southern US, and later took off again.

When I lived in n/w Ontario, it was not uncommon for small operators to land on grass on floats in the late fall for wheel/ski changeover. Usually in the early morning when the grass was still damp from dew or frost. I never witnessed the reverse in the Spring - I imagine the intial drag on floats to get up to speed would be significant.

 

[YZT580]

I wonder what they were trying to demonstrate; proof of (some) concept? I recall an episode of 'Mayday' where a commercial aircraft landed on a levee/dyke in the southern US, and later took off again.

When I lived in n/w Ontario, it was not uncommon for small operators to land on grass on floats in the late fall for wheel/ski changeover. Usually in the early morning when the grass was still damp from dew or frost. I never witnessed the reverse in the Spring - I imagine the intial drag on floats to get up to speed would be significant.

they used wheeled dollies for the departure

 

[lenaitch]

they used wheeled dollies for the departure

Of course. Makes total sense. Tnx.

 

[suffolkowner]

Arctic vehicle on track for RFP by 2026 | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

2 more years to a rfp!

 

[FJAG]

Arctic vehicle on track for RFP by 2026 | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

2 more years to a rfp!

Unfreaking believable. "On track." ????? Canada has lost all perspective on how to do this.

 

[OldSolduer]

Arctic vehicle on track for RFP by 2026 | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

2 more years to a rfp!

We live in a cold weather nation - this should not be this difficult.