Drill with Rubber C7 at LHQ.

[Bergeron 971]

I've thought of searching at local legions and asking our Affiliated unit. Also thought about the GGFG CC. As I'm aware that they have lots of Lee Enfields.
Sloaner.... That name rings a bell...

 

[p_imbeault]

I love the Lee Enfields. Just curious is it really easier to get ahold of a C7 then it is a Replica/Deactivated Lee Enfield. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I really doubt that about the C-7's and I can't believe that this thread is still going on.

 

[c.jacob]

The one advantage I can think of using a C-7 for drill is that it can be loud when you hit the rifle when doing a movement like present arms.  If it's done properly sounds quite sharp.  But a rubber rifle wouldn't have the same effect.

 

[Bergeron 971]

Yes in my region of Canada its easier to get a lbs of pot, but try to find rifles??? Not gonna happen. If you find out of country you can't import. I would love to have some deact Lee Enfields.

 

[rwgill]

Yes in my region of Canada its easier to get a lbs of pot, but try to find rifles??? Not gonna happen. If you find out of country you can't import. I would love to have some deact Lee Enfields.

It is my understanding that no cadets are permitted to do any sort of rifle or sword drill (including cutlass drill) in Eastern Region (Quebec).

I can't find the memo at the moment to clarify, but when I do, I will post it.

 

[Sloaner]

If you're right Mr. Gill, I'm glad I'm on the happy side of the Ottawa river in Central.

 

[Bergeron 971]

2920 Gatineau uses rifles on a weekly basis Modified Lee enfields I believe, 1573 Buckingham as well has rifles. We borrow our rifles from one of these corps or the sea cadets on annual inspections.
I would like to have our own as Gatineau and Buckingham among many others still use them, Note, nothing is said during suprise inspections or annual review from visiting detachment officials.

2920 Gatineau Jan 2007
http://lh5.google.com/image/lightshack/RbxF8UmzDMI/AAAAAAAABoc/1BdkM_h6Ru8/CCDT2007-051.jpg?imgmax=640

Buckingham's picture site isn't working at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

For the eastern detachement near Valacartier, it is impossible to have the rubber c7 for the unit during winter.

At my Unite, were I use to serve, we have 3 dummy leeenfeild, and we have used them on and on and on since I was enroled at this unit in 1998...they are dummies. they are a representation of the real weapon.

Talk to you detachement officer or to the NCO that is reponsible for the detachement QM. you could be suprised.

 

[rwgill]

If you're right Mr. Gill, I'm glad I'm on the happy side of the Ottawa river in Central.

I am still trying to find it. :rage:  I think it came out as a memo, but I am still looking.

Did find something for Bergeron............OCRE 1116, Para 12 d.
http://www.regions.cadets.forces.gc.ca/est/support/biblio/doc/ocre/1116.pdf

It appears that in Eastern Region, only the COOEY C2B1 is authorized for drill purposes, NOTHING else[Edit: for Army Cadets, Sea Cadets may use .303, Air Cadets no rifle drill].  Upon reviewing the CATOs, it appears that neither a Cadet Unit nor a CSTC are authorized to hold rubber C7s.

I guess this kills any hopes for you.

 

[medaid]

I dont know... maybe its just me. But C-7 arethe service weapons of the Forces, and until something changes, the cadets should stick to their drill purpose rifles, .303 Enfields. I have high regards for that weapon, as I've used it many many times when I was a cadet and the Flag Party Commander. Isnt there some way to quell this cry for cadets and C-7s once and for all?

 

[Bergeron 971]

I know that in 96 at valcartier I used rubber C7s for rifle drill. But this CATOs was updated 2001.
does anyone know what the "COOEY C2B1" is?
I believe that 2920 is using modified lee enfields. I'm against modifying the rifle. they added a wooden pistol grip to the rifle.

As well, I'm looking into organizing a weekend for silver stars and up for the C7. Learn the rifle and perhaps fire it at Cannaught Ranges.
Or worse comes to worse, we'll use the simlab.
http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1441A3_b.pdf

 

[Bergeron 971]

They should do like over seas in Britian, have service rifles modified into Semi only and .22 cal. for cadet purpose training.
But then again, we're in a liberal society, and the masses would think we're training soldiers. 

Personally when we had the 303's in cadets I thought it was smart, we learned more about firearms safety. today I would be afraid of having a rifle in my house if my *son was a cadet. I would have to teach them my self about safety. PS. I have no son.

I know that by the time I was a silver star. I wasn't even impressed by weapons, because we used them at cadets. I felt no need to play with them, compaired to friends outside of cadet who played with papa's 3030, today you would have a cdt RSM pee his pants if he touched a lee en field. IMHO

 

[IntlBr]

Just to confirm Bergeron, you've never served in the military, right?

Who has placed you in charge of making up classes and rules to teach your Cadets?

It seems to me like you're being given too much free-reign as a CI/CV.

 

[Bergeron 971]

I have no idea what you are talking about, where I'm from, you work on a project and present your idea's when they are completed on paper with references, etc.
I do not waste a superiors time with blable of what you would like to do, it wastes the officers time and its not backed with references.
anyone including a parent can organize an activity and bring it up to the training Officer, if he likes the idea he brings it to the CO.
We do not sit around waiting for things to happen leaving the jobs to one or 2 people in the corps. we all suggest and organize things.

I've always worked this way, hey if my idea wasn't taken parts of it may be considered.

As for the idea for C7 training, it would follow the CATOs, being thought BY affiliated unit members qualified to teach the courses needed and a Proper RSO from our affiliated unit would also be on service according to my project.
see: http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1441A3_b.pdf

Now where is it that you think I have free rain?

 

[IntlBr]

I have no idea what you are talking about, where I'm from, you work on a project and present your idea's when they are completed on paper with references, etc.
I do not waste a superiors time with blable of what you would like to do, it wastes the officers time and its not backed with references.
anyone including a parent can organize an activity and bring it up to the training Officer, if he likes the idea he brings it to the CO.
We do not sit around waiting for things to happen leaving the jobs to one or 2 people in the corps. we all suggest and organize things.

This all just seems like fantasy-land stuff to me.  You've been given the required information - get your CO to request for permanent T.I. Lee-Enfield No.4 rifles from your detachment.  They'll help you out.

As for the idea for C7 training, it would follow the CATOs, being thought BY affiliated unit members qualified to teach the courses needed and a Proper RSO from our affiliated unit would also be on service according to my project.
see: http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1441A3_b.pdf

The only problem is, I don't think you have the appropriate training or base-knowledge to attempt to plan this.  If your plan is to follow the CATOs, then you should be stopped by the CATO which details that Cadets are not permitted to drill with the C7 rfile.  Plan ended there.

Do you have AFU members volunteering at the moment with your Cadet unit?  I doubt they're going to teach the Cadets C7 drill when it's not permissible in the first place.  Even then, would you want to be the one who's bright idea it was that had detachment dump all over your RegF/PRes volunteers?

You said you were going to teach them everything they needed to know about the weapons, flags, flag belts, etc. etc.  Are you qualified for this?

And hold the phone - RSO?  Why do you need an RSO?  I thought these were replica weapons we were discussing - and where do you think the AFU is going to get the money to send all these people over to your CC - just to pursue your idea of an 'elite' flag party?

Why are you so intent on having crack troops?  Why not work towards these high standards with all of your Cadets instead of the "seven" you've chosen for the flag party (although even if you were using the max. number of flags [2] you'd only need five people in the flag party).

Now where is it that you think I have free rain?

It seems as if you've got either:  ridiculous amounts of free-reign as a CI/CV - or all of this is make-believe, and your unit's CO has no idea you're even remotely trying to pursue all of these avenues.

As was said before:

Get the unit's Officers to contact detachment about securing some Lee-Enfield No.4 rifles for the unit.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

one thing to note the double standard in cadet...


during summer training, there are course with ruber c7 drill starting with the second camp (cours de chef) a cadet can attend....but you have no permission to do it at local unit

second one...during summer training, at cheif instructor cam (cours de chef instructeur), you could a couple of years ago have course on c7 and shoot c7.


double standard again....well...those are reason I stop wanted to be CIC....and well...I read this thread with a large smile...it has not change, neither it will...

 

[rwgill]

I like you Bergeron, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Mods locked this one up, nor would I disagree with them.

This has been beaten to death.  There is only one rifle permitted, in all of Canada, for rifle drill.  Only one.

If you feel that this should be changed, please follow the Chain of Command.  Speak with your CO.  If the CO agrees, +1, then continue to the Det and so on.  Until the CATOs and various Regional Orders are changed, you are SOL.

Cheers,

 

[THEARMYGUY]

I agree with you Mr. Gill.  This one is old and tired and needs to be put to bed.  1 Cadet rifle for use at home corps.  No room for questioning the CATO as it currently stands.  DEAD HORSE.

Cheers!!!   

the army guy    :warstory:

 

[Burrows]

Unlocked at the request of a user who has something to add.