Firearms range off limits for militia

[Spanky]

Just to try something totally different, I thought I'd respond to the actual topic of the thread.

It's too bad we can't use the range.  Even though it is only a hundred meters, it would be a valuable resource.  I would be able to take my troop on a two minute walk to the range on a Thursday night and spend some quality time improving musketry skills.  Far better than25/30 rounds a year an hour away.
We have an excellent resource down here, and it's frustrating to see it not being utilized to it's fullest potential.

 

[Michael Shannon]

Just to try something totally different, I thought I'd respond to the actual topic of the thread.

It's too bad we can't use the range.   Even though it is only a hundred meters, it would be a valuable resource.   I would be able to take my troop on a two minute walk to the range on a Thursday night and spend some quality time improving musketry skills.   Far better than25/30 rounds a year an hour away.
We have an excellent resource down here, and it's frustrating to see it not being utilized to it's fullest potential.

  Exactly and if your unit could LPO small arms ammo think of how much better the troops skill and morale would be as well as your "foot print " in the community.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

   Exactly and if your unit could LPO small arms ammo think of how much better the troops skill and morale would be as well as your "foot print " in the community.

Until some nervous, just out of BMQ Trooper accidently flicks to full auto and sprays the range with a full mag 5.56 before the safety staff can jump on him, potentially (for all the risk-adverse lawyers out there) killing/injuring one of the civvy "supervisors".  We have DND ranges for a reason.

 

[KevinB]

Teddy - The above is the first comment I have disagreed with you on.

1) That "could" happen at any range.
2) That could happen with LE as well.

3) Final point: Any CF member could go off at any time - we dont since we have been indoctrinated and diciplined - but if you design a  range for the What if's - where are the safe guards that ensure someone does not decide to steal a LAV off a range and go Mad Max...


Michael Shannon's point in this regard are 100% -- I cannot see a legitimate downside

 

[George Wallace]

Kev

I think the point is more along the lines of bringing wpns and ammo to a DND Range Practice and the legal ramifications of what will happen if they are involved in an accident.  There are strict rules what we can and cannot do, and the AJAG quite often thinks only in Black and White, with no shades of Gray.  We are limited by our Regulations, which are there to keep us from excessive liabilities.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Kev

I think the point is more along the lines of bringing wpns and ammo to a DND Range Practice and the legal ramifications of what will happen if they are involved in an accident.   There are strict rules what we can and cannot do, and the AJAG quite often thinks only in Black and White, with no shades of Gray.   We are limited by our Regulations, which are there to keep us from excessive liabilities.

Exactly.  My point was poorly expressed.  Note to self:  coffee, then post!

 

[George Wallace]

I guess I also left out the key word "Civie" wpns and ammo. 

 

[KevinB]

Roger that - I understand that side of it - However a gov't range is a gov't range.  I have shot .mil weapons on .gov property in the past.

I still believe that all that should be required is the Range to be certified by a competant (CF) individual.  If it is properly templated it should not matter if it is owned by the Tooth Fairy.

Believe me I have seen an AJAG make some BIZARRE rulings - but since we can do it on RCMP ranges, it should not be a long stretch to allow municipal/provicial rnage usages as they are not public and any users are governmentally insured.


As for civilian ammo - weapons -- they are authorised for CF gun clubs.  My recomondation IF the unit wants to shoot their prior to it being authorised as a CF range - have the unit buy a few Diemaco C8LE carbines (semi auto) and then hold them on a shooting club DA and buy Winchester RA556M855 (a US M855/SS109/C77 clone loading)

 

[Michael OLeary]

I still believe that all that should be required is the Range to be certified by a competant (CF) individual.  If it is properly templated it should not matter if it is owned by the Tooth Fairy.

And therein lies the crux of the matter. Other government ranges have been used because they have been templated in accordance with the Training Safety manual, local regulations developed when necessary, and everything run in accordance with existing range practices.

i do not believe that we (the CF) have developed a standard template for baffled ranges, or have an existing practice to sanction the use of such ranges built by other agencies. This would then require the appropriate staff action to have the template guru at NDHQ create the safety parameters from scratch to satisfy our requirements. This would be outside the bounds of responsibility for a unit/brigade staff to "template", nor would it be within the purview of the ranges Staff Officer at Area HQ level.

It may be a perfectly safe range, and the local unit may well be capable of conducting safe and worthwhile practices on it ...... but, in the event that something does go wrong, and there's no established documentation stating that it meets our safety expectations and how it is to be used, then the range staff, including the Commanding Officer who designated the OIC/RSO can be held liable for any accidents or incidents.

The exiting restrictions aren't in place to deny training opportunities, they are there to avoid unnecessary risk to all parties.

My question would be, through the unit staff to the chain of comand, 'What has been done to initiate the staff action to request that the range be inspected and sanctioned?'