Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Kirkhill]

Re recalcitrant tow truck drivers

Canada Criminal Code (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46)[2]
See 129(b) for circumstances where it is a crime not to act in assistance of the police.

129 Every one who

(a) resists or wilfully obstructs a public officer or peace officer in the execution of his duty or any person lawfully acting in aid of such an officer,
(b) omits, without reasonable excuse, to assist a public officer or peace officer in the execution of his duty in arresting a person or in preserving the peace, after having reasonable notice that he is required to do so, or
(c) resists or wilfully obstructs any person in the lawful execution of a process against lands or goods or in making a lawful distress or seizure,

is guilty of

(d) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or
(e) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 118; 1972, c. 13, s. 7.

 

[Altair]

Ideally both. It would be a federal act that could be invoked at either level, similar to aid to civil power in the NDA. As it involves criminal law, or perhaps peace, order, and good government I believe according to s. 91/92 that it would have to be legislated at the federal level.

As for the towing company, I could see a use for it at both levels.

Like I said, it logically works.

Which is why it wont happen.

 

[Altair]

Re recalcitrant tow truck drivers

Yeah, I heard about that. Why was it not used should be investigated.

 

[MilEME09]

Re recalcitrant tow truck drivers

What I've said for a long time, we have all the laws, and tools we need. Our problem is a reluctance to enforce the laws as written because we have become to risk adverse and rather wait it out, then take action.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Not a hint of a solution, but entertaining none the least.

You admit you, and the entire collected governments of the country, are incapable of finding solutions that don't require emergency powers?

Very well. Offer towing companies a sh!tload of money. Double the offers. Quadruple the offers. Buy a company. Scour the web for new and used tow trucks for sale, and buy some. Hire retired drivers (who have no employer to boycott) to operate vehicles. Hire retired drivers to use DND equipment if DND operators aren't competent to tow rigs. That's all I could come up with in 60 seconds or less, which is about as much of you as my time is worth.

 

[Brad Sallows]

an act that would allow one of the 14 jurisdictions to declare a certain area around an occupation (be it Ottawa, a pipeline, or a train track etc) area to be a no-go zone where people would be susceptible to arrest, and it would be prohibited.

Freedom of assembly is basically meaningless if it can be turned on and off like a light switch. That's why provisions to do that kind of thing are in the EA.

[Add to emphasize: Powers in the EA were put there because they were meant to be extraordinary, and politically difficult to employ. To suggest, in essence, that because we have to invoke the EA to employ the powers, the powers should be removed out of the EA, is perverse.]

 

[Altair]

You admit you, and the entire collected governments of the country, are incapable of finding solutions that don't require emergency powers?

I had a bunch of fanciful ideas on what to do, I do admit I dont know enough about trucks and laws to say if they were feasible.

Very well. Offer towing companies a sh!tload of money. Double the offers. Quadruple the offers.

I dont think money was the issue here, but Im not privy to how those conversations went.

Buy a company.

I like this one.

Scour the web for new and used tow trucks for sale, and buy some. Hire retired drivers (who have no employer to boycott) to operate vehicles.

This could be done, but in a quick and speedy manner in response to something like this? Probably better to stick to your previous idea.

Hire retired drivers to use DND equipment if DND operators aren't competent to tow rigs.

Thats a no go and you know it.

That's all I could come up with in 60 seconds or less, which is about as much of you as my time is worth.

Its like my mother always said, dont complain about a problem unless you have a solution.

So I applaud you taking 60 seconds out of your day to stop whining about the EA and think of some potential novel solutions.

 

[RedFive]

Here's a good look. Dude already down and under control, but best to knee drop him a couple of times, just to be sure.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1080068899225859

I'm not going to defend these actions because I wasn't there, but I wont condemn them either. We didn't see the whole interaction. But I'll throw out some of my considerations, watching that video.

First of all, down doesn't always equal under control.

Has he got his hands under him? What's in those hands? Is he reaching for his waistband, the #1 place people hide things to do harm to others? What behaviour was he exhibiting before being dragged there? Is he threatening those cops? Telling them he's going to shoot/stab/fight them given the chance? We don't know.

It looks bad, I'll say for sure. And the fact there's other officers there watching but not acting leaves me scratching my head, because every knock down/drag out brawl I've ever been in where somebody was down but not out and continues to be on the receiving end has been an "all hands on deck" occasion. But that's been my experience.

Just food for thought.

 

[suffolkowner]

As far as the trucks go, why do they need to be towed? Why can't they just be driven away?

 

[The Bread Guy]

... We didn't see the whole interaction ...

Zackly. The same standard that should be applied to all kinds of videos of similar "they're already down but someone's seen whaling on them" situations.

 

[Good2Golf]

It’s probably the loophole on foreign funding for political activities.

She specifically mentioned FINTRAC, which is already available to government, but needs a court order to freeze funds. A change to keep the financial element of the EA to enable FINTRAC use and freezing funds would ‘simplify’ things and let unelected public servants direct actions against individuals’ or corporations’ bank accounts.

 

[Good2Golf]

And your line of argument is the government come up with some other magical way to force private corporations to do things like tow a truck.

So you’re saying the EA was the only way to confirm the use of tow trucks?

That’s not the case. A LEOngriend of mine pointed out that Police in Canada have always been able to commander a vehicle (or boat, or skidoo, or whatever) using Sect. 129 of the Criminal Code. No EA needed to, do so, so another untick in the “absolutely need the EA” box.

Edit to add: oops, I see @Kirkhill already posted about CCC s.129

 

[Remius]

So you’re saying the EA was the only way to confirm the use of tow trucks?

That’s not the case. A LEOngriend of mine pointed out that Police in Canada have always been able to commander a vehicle (or boat, or skidoo, or whatever) using Sect. 129 of the Criminal Code. No EA needed to, do so, so another untick in the “absolutely need the EA” box.

Edit to add: oops, I see @Kirkhill already posted about CCC s.129

Like in the movies. The problem is having trained pers to operate the commandeered vehicles.

No need for the EA. Tow truck companies that were under contract or standing offer with police services were in breech of contract. Simple. Terminate contracts, go after them in civil cases for costs incurred and possibly remove their ability to operate in the jurisdictions they refused to service.

It will make an example of some so that next time, if this happens they’ll know what it costs to do such things. I know the City Manager here is reviewing all contracts and standing offers.

 

[Good2Golf]

Like in the movies. The problem is having trained pers to operate the commandeered vehicles.

Yes, and real life too.

I don’t disagree with you, as I personally believe that the City of Ottawa didn’t even need to go that route - especially seeing several of the City/OC Transpo wreckers in action, it was, IMO, unnecessary grand standing for something that wasn’t substantially used (I think some smaller tow trucks were used with EA powers, but I remain to see a single fancy-pants commercial diuble-rotator wrecker used to remove trucks.

No need for the EA. Tow truck companies that were under contract or standing offer with police services were in breech of contract. Simple. Terminate contracts, go after them in civil cases for costs incurred and possibly remove their ability to operate in the jurisdictions they refused to service.

Agree with this…if the contracts with the city actually contained supporting clauses, the. Cut them loose legally.

It will make an example of some so that next time, if this happens they’ll know what it costs to do such things. I know the City Manager here is reviewing all contracts and standing offers.

As they should be reviewing…’For The Next TimeTM’

 

[FSTO]

Yes, and real life too.

I don’t disagree with you, as I personally believe that the City of Ottawa didn’t even need to go that route - especially seeing several of the City/OC Transpo wreckers in action, it was, IMO, unnecessary grand standing for something that wasn’t substantially used (I think some smaller tow trucks were used with EA powers, but I remain to see a single fancy-pants commercial diuble-rotator wrecker used to remove trucks.


Agree with this…if the contracts with the city actually contained supporting clauses, the. Cut them loose legally.


As they should be reviewing…’For The Next TimeTM’

I say 1 ton tow trucks, heavy wrecker tow trucks and even the "High Boy" heavy front end loader tractors towing way the debris.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Like in the movies. The problem is having trained pers to operate the commandeered vehicles.

That's like saying only trained professionals can give vaccines.

Besides if you need trained people to operate vehicles we've heard all about how its only a few truckers involved in the protest and the vast majority are against it. I'm sure the government could get those other pissed off truckers to move some trucks out of the down town core.

Hell I'm qualified airbrakes, I'll do it for some taco bell.

 

[Remius]

That's like saying only trained professionals can give vaccines.

Besides if you need trained people to operate vehicles we've heard all about how its only a few truckers involved in the protest and the vast majority are against it. I'm sure the government could get those other pissed off truckers to move some trucks out of the down town core.

Hell I'm qualified airbrakes, I'll do it for some taco bell.

I thought we were talking about commandeering tow trucks and wreckers? A slight difference as far as being trained on how to use them I would think.

 

[Good2Golf]

I thought we were talking about commandeering tow trucks and wreckers? A slight difference as far as being trained on how to use them I would think.

So I saw a news clip that had four OC Transpo wreckers (white/red/yellow) and one black wrecker (assuming this is a contracted rig), so it’s reasonable to assume that Ottawa has a number of wrecker operators and if the city had chosen to not use its own assets in the end with minor augmentation from outside, then it would seem reasonable to expect those city employees to operate any commandeered equipment. Your point about needing to be trained to operate them is valid, but I don’t think on the other hand you can dismiss trained city staff.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I thought we were talking about commandeering tow trucks and wreckers? A slight difference as far as being trained on how to use them I would think.

I apologize I thought we were talking about the trucks down town.

 

[Altair]

So you’re saying the EA was the only way to confirm the use of tow trucks?

That’s not the case. A LEOngriend of mine pointed out that Police in Canada have always been able to commander a vehicle (or boat, or skidoo, or whatever) using Sect. 129 of the Criminal Code. No EA needed to, do so, so another untick in the “absolutely need the EA” box.

Edit to add: oops, I see @Kirkhill already posted about CCC s.129

Like i said, things were messed up at a municipal level.

For weeks the feds said the city had the resources to deal with this and for weeks the city said hell no it didnt.

When the feds are forced to act, it can only use legislation. What else could the feds do if the municipality wasnt doing its job?