Friendly Advice for potential Infantry Officer candidates

[ballz]

(ANd yes, helping those who want it, and clarifying what it is for those who aren't sure, or who have false ideas of what it means)

And you've done a heck of a job at that so far, through the many PMs I've sent and these threads. Prepare for a barrage of more as 24 May comes closer, I apologize in advance ;D

Cheers

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Just to add some context, one fine day in Afghanistan I was near a scale, so I weighed my kit, the normal kit I wore/carried on an average patrol (normally a 4 x weekly event at the minimum).  The shortest patrols were normally clearing patrols in and around the TI to a radius all around the position of about 1500m, so do the math.  Directed patrols into the villes or other times were longer.

My kit, plain-Jane, weighed 75lbs.  Before the weight of extra water, extra batteries, an M72 or "other Force Protection equipment".

So be ready to carry and keep up.

BTW I was a Cavalry soldier, not infantry, so I'd suggest to orient your fitness level accordingly.  Everything TV says is 100% ccorrect, so if you have doubts of ability or drive, remuster out of the Combat Arms now.

 

[DELTADOG13]

Techno Viking,

I was hoping he would get more too. Something along the lines of a MSC or MMV. The General that day tried to have him reconsider his release. Sometimes you have to make hard career choices and get on with it.

DD13

 

[PrairieBoy]

This is all really good advice, and I thank you for it!

I'll admit, I'm not in the best physical shape. Oh I'm active, I enjoy rugby and bicycling and other things, but I'm still working on getting into top physical shape for my BMOQ. However, Infantry Officer is the thing I want most out of the Army, and I'll do whatever the Forces asks me to do if it means I can be an Infantry Officer.

 

[Ayrsayle]

Thank you TV - This post (and subsequent replies, etc) was perhaps the most informative piece of information available to us civilians looking into joining the Infantry. The Recruiters by and large were unable to provide information outside of "It's a hard job, are you fit?"

In fact, it was this post which made me change my mind on my application. I was not considering becoming an Infantry Officer, but sat down with your questions for a week and realized this was the kind of challenge I wanted from my career. Thank you for the honesty, I found it quite inspiring.

 

[vonGarvin]

Thank you TV - This post (and subsequent replies, etc) was perhaps the most informative piece of information available to us civilians looking into joining the Infantry. The Recruiters by and large were unable to provide information outside of "It's a hard job, are you fit?"

In fact, it was this post which made me change my mind on my application. I was not considering becoming an Infantry Officer, but sat down with your questions for a week and realized this was the kind of challenge I wanted from my career. Thank you for the honesty, I found it quite inspiring.

You're welcome.  And I hope that one day you will know the feeling of being an Infantry Platoon Commander.  Though it may not seem it at times during your training, it's more than worth it.

Cheers!

 

[spanishflame]

I would like to ask a question to you Technoviking.

I am a Corporal in a support trade. I am thinking of applying for either CEOTP or UTPNCM to become an Infantry Officer. It is something I always wanted to do. I am in pretty decent physical condition. I could do a BFT every week with no problem at all. However I am not the best runner. No matter how much I train I cannot get higher than level 9 on the express test. However I can run 10 k in 50 minutes everyday. Would that be a major issue?

Thank you Sir

 

[vonGarvin]

I would like to ask a question to you Technoviking.

I am a Corporal in a support trade. I am thinking of applying for either CEOTP or UTPNCM to become an Infantry Officer. It is something I always wanted to do. I am in pretty decent physical condition. I could do a BFT every week with no problem at all. However I am not the best runner. No matter how much I train I cannot get higher than level 9 on the express test. However I can run 10 k in 50 minutes everyday. Would that be a major issue?

Thank you Sir

If you can ruck with weight beyond the BFT weight, and if you can do level 9 on the express, and 10k in 50 mins, you should have no issues at all.  Physically, anyway.  The main obstacle I find with candidates is their psychological barriers.  We have all faced them, and we have all needed help getting past them.  You already have the basics down, I assume (the soldier skills), which should put you in a good position.

I wish you all the best!


Techno

 

[Redeye]

If you can ruck with weight beyond the BFT weight, and if you can do level 9 on the express, and 10k in 50 mins, you should have no issues at all.  Physically, anyway.  The main obstacle I find with candidates is their psychological barriers.  We have all faced them, and we have all needed help getting past them.  You already have the basics down, I assume (the soldier skills), which should put you in a good position.

I wish you all the best!


Techno

That's exactly it.  I'm a terrible runner.  I have screwed up feet from an old injury that I didn't deal with properly (harsh lesson learned) that makes it not at all fun - though I'm trying to improve at it.  However, I can throw on a ruck and get on with the job reasonably well.  On my DP1.1 there was a wide swath of fitness levels - but psychology plays a huge role too.  What I learned is that my body will generally speaking do a heck of a lot more than my brain thinks it can, as long as I have the mental tenacity to push for it.  The people who had the most difficulty on the course were those, regardless of fitness, who couldn't find that edge to keep pushing.  That said, fitness matters, and if you're not committed to working to constantly improve that, you're in for a world of hurt.

The one thing that explains it well is this - there's morning PT every day in garrison, but at night, you'll find a good chunk of the DP1.1 candidates in the gym or running or doing something as well, not because they "have" to, but because they know it will help.

The quote in my signature line was my "mantra" through the course.  It happened to be my high school's motto, and is about the only thing I really liked about the school and kept with me.  It literally translates as "no palms without dust" - coming from the Gladiator days, where in order to walk on the palm frond-covered path out of the arena in triumph, you first had to get dirty.

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

Hello All
If you read my profile, you will note that I am an Infantry Officer, and that I am currently at the Infantry School.  I am putting creating this topic as a helpful note for you people who wish to be Infantry Officers.

Bottom Line Up Front: The infantry is one of the toughest trades you could join.  To be an infantry officer is probably one of the toughest things you could train to do.  I say this from experience, having been an Infantryman before I became an Infantry Officer.  Because of this, if you are not in top physical shape, if you are not adverse to being out of communication with your family for extended periods of time, including no Facebook, no Army.ca, no iThings, then joining as an Infantry Officer is not for you.  Don't waste my time and apply to be an Infantry Officer.

I cannot say this enough: if you are not in top physical shape, do not join as an Infantry Officer in spite of what a recruiter may tell you.  We will NOT get you into shape: you must arrive ready to conduct the training, no matter if you are a regular officer candidate or a reserve officer candidate.  To illustrate, I will outline the training system here at the Infantry School.

First, you will have to complete a course called BMOQ-L.  This is a ten-week army-level course, and one of the prerequisites is to be fit in accordance with CF standards.  This means you will have to complete what is called the Expres Test on day one.  (Please note that "Expres" is spelled correctly).  If you fail this, you will go to what is called a PRB, where the commandant of the school will determine your future.  Most likely, he will offer you coaching on the technique of the test, as well as to illuminate to you his philosophy on physical fitness training.  At this point, I would like to emphasise one example of a candidate who failed the Expres Test on day one.  He was coached, and then passed his retest two days later, gaining an exemption level (read: excellent) level.  He failed because of his technique, not because he wasn't fit.  So, during this ten-week course, which has a mix of garrison and field training, you will be challenged, but nothing like that expected of an infantry officer.  As well, you will be required to complete what we call the BFT or LFCPFS.

Once this course is done, you will have to complete the next course, which is called IODP 1.1. This is a dismounted infantry platoon commander's course.  It is 14 weeks long, and one prerequisite is to be fit in accordance with army standards.  This means that you will have to complete the LFCPFS during the first two weeks of the course (normally on day two or three).  If you fail this test, you will proceed to a PRB and most likely offered a retest.  But I must warn you: this test is an ARMY level physical fitness test, which applies to all army trades.  Naturally, as an infantry officer, we will expect you to excel at this test.

The course itself is in what I would term as three parts.  The first is a weapons stage, in which you learn the employment of the platoon weapons.  The next is what I would call the field phase, in which you learn offensive and defensive operations, patrolling and then full spectrum operations.  Finally, there is what I would call the Field Firing phase, in which you learn the ins and outs of setting up and running field ranges.

The field phase is intense.  If you think that you cannot bear to carry upwards of 60 pounds in all weather, day and night, for hours at a time, and then complete complex mental tasks with little sleep or food, then again, do not waste my time: don't join.  You will be in survival mode in the field phase, and incapable of demonstrating the ability to lead others in battle. 

The attrition rate for this course, for all reasons, is roughly 50%.  Not all fail, but some hurt themselves (which is unavoidable in some cases) but most failures I have seen are due to mental fatigue. 

If you are a reservist, completing IODP 1.1 will mean that you are done, and you can then go on to your reserve Regiment as a fully qualified infantry officer.  If you are a regular force candidate, then you have one more course to complete: IODP 1.2. 

This course is actually three courses: Turret Operator, LAV APC Crew Commander, and then IODP 1.2 Mechanised Infantry Platoon Commander.  This course is to the mental what the IODP 1.1 is to the physical.  No longer will you have to worry about your platoon moving at the pace of a walking man, but now you will be going in excess of 50 KMH, cross country, and have to consider assets external to the platoon (tanks, artillery, engineers, etc).  Fitness is vital in this course as well, but considering that IODP 1.1 weeds out the weak, those who make it this far have the requisite level of fitness.  Still, the past two courses have seen abnormally high failure rates.  Some just can't make the mental leap to having to consider several square kilometres at once, as they move about the battlespace.  You need to be an agile thinker to be successful.


So, in conclusion, if you have issues at home (spouse, significant other, family or otherwise), don't waste my time.  If you are not in top physical shape, don't waste my time.  If you cannot stand to be incommunicado for extended periods of time, don't waste my time.  If you have no issues, are in top shape, and can think on your feet and are agressive, a go-getter and are willing to accept and share risk of injury or death, then don't hesitate: join the infantry.  I cannot stress enough that this isn't a job: it's a vocation, a calling.  If you aren't willing to sacrifice personal comfort for this vocation, then again, I cannot say it enough: don't waste my time.  Our Infantrymen deserve only the best, and if you can't be the best for them, then this vocation isn't for you.

I can't think of anything that's more true than the above statement.

 

[Muttenthaler]

I've always felt that being calm in the storm is an admirable trait and should be encouraged.  Unfortunately, many in the Navy don't seem to agree.  In many people's view if you're not running around screaming direction, you're not leading.  This has always driven me nuts.  I grew tired of being dumped on for NOT panicking.

I believe that there's a time and a place for everything. There are situations where it might be necessary to jump into a problem headfirst and react to things as they come, because it could save precious time and by extension, lives. In order to be effective at this method, you must detach yourself from your environment and become objective, keeping a level balance of information input and quick decision-making. There are also situations that ALLOW you to relax long enough to organize a "plan of attack" and make the victory over your obstacle easy. Knowing the difference is key, and could mean everything when it comes down to getting your men out alive, or in bodybags.

I was infantry for 7 years as an NCM, and I almost put Infantry down on my ROTP application as my first choice, but other resposibilities are keeping me in my trade. The biggest problem I faced as an NCM was not having leadership that understood the psychology of their position. It is paramount to be able to see the "big picture" in any situation, and understand the purpose and consequence of your decisions. The second-biggest problem I had was not having leadership that was physically fit.

A leader, in any trade, is not a leader if they are not leading by example.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hello All
If you read my profile, you will note that I am an Infantry Officer, and that I am currently at the Infantry School.  I am putting creating this topic as a helpful note for you people who wish to be Infantry Officers.

Bottom Line Up Front: The infantry is one of the toughest trades you could join.  To be an infantry officer is probably one of the toughest things you could train to do.  I say this from experience, having been an Infantryman before I became an Infantry Officer.  Because of this, if you are not in top physical shape, if you are not adverse to being out of communication with your family for extended periods of time, including no Facebook, no Army.ca, no iThings, then joining as an Infantry Officer is not for you.  Don't waste my time and apply to be an Infantry Officer.

I cannot say this enough: if you are not in top physical shape, do not join as an Infantry Officer in spite of what a recruiter may tell you.  We will NOT get you into shape: you must arrive ready to conduct the training, no matter if you are a regular officer candidate or a reserve officer candidate.  To illustrate, I will outline the training system here at the Infantry School.

First, you will have to complete a course called BMOQ-L.  This is a ten-week army-level course, and one of the prerequisites is to be fit in accordance with CF standards.  This means you will have to complete what is called the Expres Test on day one.  (Please note that "Expres" is spelled correctly).  If you fail this, you will go to what is called a PRB, where the commandant of the school will determine your future.  Most likely, he will offer you coaching on the technique of the test, as well as to illuminate to you his philosophy on physical fitness training.  At this point, I would like to emphasise one example of a candidate who failed the Expres Test on day one.  He was coached, and then passed his retest two days later, gaining an exemption level (read: excellent) level.  He failed because of his technique, not because he wasn't fit.  So, during this ten-week course, which has a mix of garrison and field training, you will be challenged, but nothing like that expected of an infantry officer.  As well, you will be required to complete what we call the BFT or LFCPFS.

Once this course is done, you will have to complete the next course, which is called IODP 1.1. This is a dismounted infantry platoon commander's course.  It is 14 weeks long, and one prerequisite is to be fit in accordance with army standards.  This means that you will have to complete the LFCPFS during the first two weeks of the course (normally on day two or three).  If you fail this test, you will proceed to a PRB and most likely offered a retest.  But I must warn you: this test is an ARMY level physical fitness test, which applies to all army trades.  Naturally, as an infantry officer, we will expect you to excel at this test.

The course itself is in what I would term as three parts.  The first is a weapons stage, in which you learn the employment of the platoon weapons.  The next is what I would call the field phase, in which you learn offensive and defensive operations, patrolling and then full spectrum operations.  Finally, there is what I would call the Field Firing phase, in which you learn the ins and outs of setting up and running field ranges.

The field phase is intense.  If you think that you cannot bear to carry upwards of 60 pounds in all weather, day and night, for hours at a time, and then complete complex mental tasks with little sleep or food, then again, do not waste my time: don't join.  You will be in survival mode in the field phase, and incapable of demonstrating the ability to lead others in battle. 

The attrition rate for this course, for all reasons, is roughly 50%.  Not all fail, but some hurt themselves (which is unavoidable in some cases) but most failures I have seen are due to mental fatigue. 

If you are a reservist, completing IODP 1.1 will mean that you are done, and you can then go on to your reserve Regiment as a fully qualified infantry officer.  If you are a regular force candidate, then you have one more course to complete: IODP 1.2. 

This course is actually three courses: Turret Operator, LAV APC Crew Commander, and then IODP 1.2 Mechanised Infantry Platoon Commander.  This course is to the mental what the IODP 1.1 is to the physical.  No longer will you have to worry about your platoon moving at the pace of a walking man, but now you will be going in excess of 50 KMH, cross country, and have to consider assets external to the platoon (tanks, artillery, engineers, etc).  Fitness is vital in this course as well, but considering that IODP 1.1 weeds out the weak, those who make it this far have the requisite level of fitness.  Still, the past two courses have seen abnormally high failure rates.  Some just can't make the mental leap to having to consider several square kilometres at once, as they move about the battlespace.  You need to be an agile thinker to be successful.


So, in conclusion, if you have issues at home (spouse, significant other, family or otherwise), don't waste my time.  If you are not in top physical shape, don't waste my time.  If you cannot stand to be incommunicado for extended periods of time, don't waste my time.  If you have no issues, are in top shape, and can think on your feet and are agressive, a go-getter and are willing to accept and share risk of injury or death, then don't hesitate: join the infantry.  I cannot stress enough that this isn't a job: it's a vocation, a calling.  If you aren't willing to sacrifice personal comfort for this vocation, then again, I cannot say it enough: don't waste my time.  Our Infantrymen deserve only the best, and if you can't be the best for them, then this vocation isn't for you.

So how did it work out last summer TV? Did people pay heed to the friendly advice?

 

[vonGarvin]

So how did it work out last summer TV? Did people pay heed to the friendly advice?

The attrition rate was much lower this year.  It was refreshing.

 

[Journeyman]

So how did it work out last summer TV? Did people pay heed to the friendly advice?

The attrition rate was much lower this year.  It was refreshing.

It sounds like the standards have dropped. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

The attrition rate was much lower this year.  It was refreshing.

We had one young lad come back who actually said that, although it was still quite tough, he'd actually learned alot. Of course the CO and I regaled him with horror stories from when we went through, because of course we were tougher when we were his age. Then I thought "Hey, the little bugger probably learned more than I did!".

 

[Stefan_S]

What Qualifies for top Physical Shape?

 

[vonGarvin]

What Qualifies for top Physical Shape?

Good aerobic, anaerobic and strength.  You have to run, sprint and carry a whack load of "stuff" and the key to this all is to be able to mentally endure hardship.

The course (DP 1.1, the dismounted platoon commander course) has undergone a bit of a make-over recently.  What is being taught hasn't change.  How it is being taught has. 

The course is still 13 weeks in length, but no longer is it in "modules". 

First you will be instructed on how to operate the platoon support weapons.  This is about 2 weeks. 

Next you will be qualified to be a range safety officer on field firing ranges.  This is about 2 weeks as well.

After this, you will learn the theory of operations: defensive, offensive and patrolling.  This will be about 2 weeks (please note: the times are approximate).

During this roughly 6 week period, you will undergo intense physical training (PT) in garrison, all with a view to prepare you for the field.  It culminates with the BFT.  (The course that is underway right now just did their BFT without a single issue.  This is the first time this has happened in quite a while).

The final roughly seven weeks consists of a variety of field exercises.  Some are "Battle Schools" where the candidates move to the "walk" phase (of crawl - walk - run).  They will go through the demonstration and practice of the various operations (defensive, offensive and patrolling).  The other exercises are the run phase, where candidates will go roughly 24/7 for about a week and a bit for each ex.  Following a long-ish weekend to recharge and reset, they will go into the next.

The key to remember is that by the end of the course, you will have traversed roughly 400 km (or so) with rucksacks.  It sounds like a lot (and it is), but it is roughly 10-15 km at a time. 

As the course continues, we are adapting the schedule in order to keep the course "honest" and attempt to strike a balance between instructing people and challenging them.  Our soldiers, their future subordinates, deserve no less.

 

[ballz]

After this, you will learn the theory of operations: defensive, offensive and patrolling.  This will be about 2 weeks (please note: the times are approximate).

~2 weeks (10 training days?) instead of 6 training days... I am sure this will be a very welcomed change amongst me and my peers.

The final roughly seven weeks consists of a variety of field exercises.  Some are "Battle Schools" where the candidates move to the "walk" phase (of crawl - walk - run).  They will go through the demonstration and practice of the various operations (defensive, offensive and patrolling).  The other exercises are the run phase, where candidates will go roughly 24/7 for about a week and a bit for each ex.  Following a long-ish weekend to recharge and reset, they will go into the next.

Does this change of format translate into less, more, or about the same amount of learning time (I am talking about Battle School, TEWTS, etc, as opposed to the actual FTX*) before you actually get hard-assessed? Does it affect the method that you are assessed(in other words, are there more opportunities to be evaluated in the field in a leadership position, as opposed to TEWTs, etc). Just wondering if you could comment on how it affected / changed the whole "TEWTs vs FTX" evaluations?

*While I realize that the FTXs are also very important "learning time" and for getting experience, they are also where you are getting evaluated as a leader. I am asking about learning time before the FTX for that reason.

Thanks again TV

 

[daftandbarmy]

What Qualifies for top Physical Shape?

Being able to fit into your mess kit one year following the end of your course  ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

Does this change of format translate into less, more, or about the same amount of learning time (I am talking about Battle School, TEWTS, etc, as opposed to the actual FTX*) before you actually get hard-assessed?

The training time hasn't changed at all;however, to illustrate the change, let me use the example of the defensive.  Previously, you would learn it, go the field, and do it.  But you have yet to learn patrolling or offensive operations.  So, you cannot do the first or third phase of defensive operations (covering force battle, and countermoves).  So, you dig in, watch your arc, blow off ammo, and that's that. 

Now, in the theory, you will learn all phases, and then practice the offensive and patrolling first (knowing enough of the defensive to only be dangerous).  Once you do defensive, you will be able to do the whole thing.

Does it affect the method that you are assessed(in other words, are there more opportunities to be evaluated in the field in a leadership position, as opposed to TEWTs, etc). Just wondering if you could comment on how it affected / changed the whole "TEWTs vs FTX" evaluations?

Unfortunately, no.  The assessment plan is still in the TP, so there are still TEWTs; however, leadership is assessed throughout, and now there will be more opportunities for field leadership.

*While I realize that the FTXs are also very important "learning time" and for getting experience, they are also where you are getting evaluated as a leader. I am asking about learning time before the FTX for that reason.

Thanks again TV

Yes, there is more time to actually learn prior to being assessed in a role.  And more practice time before being assessed as well.  For example, today they were doing walk-throughs of attacks on the sports field following theory lessons on platoon attacks.  They don't hit the battleschool phase (eg: practice) until the latter part of next week.  By then, they will have walked through offensive, defensive and patrolling, and then will go out and practice at a quicker pace, with plenty of time for AARs, time for assessors to do more coaching/helping/prodding.  The hope is that all will learn better from collective errors prior to the assessment sheets coming out.