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"Fury" WW2-era tank movie remake stars Brad Pitt, Shia Lebeouf

I thought it was probably one of the best movies around related to the experiences in NW Europe following D Day. A buddy who served as a USMC tank platoon commander thought the same, and forgave the movie it's shortcomings related to accurately portraying tank platoon tactics stuff. Based on my dad's accounts, they certainly nailed the allies' feelings about the SS and how they dealt with them.

Two odd things though:

The religious stuff. I don't know if they were just laying that on thick for the audience, or if it was a feature of US tank crew life. It just kind of creeped me out.

Humour, general lack of.
 
Colin P said:
Here is a excellent film on the cross country capabilities of tanks, had the Germans been able to solve the Final drive issues on the Panther it would have been a excellent tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmXEly5_u38

The Panther seemed to have been good enough for another panzer commander named Ernst Barkmann who killed 9 Shermans single-handedly in one encounter during the Normandy campaign. Plus more in conjunction with his unit.


During that brave engagement often called "Barkmann's Corner", Ernst Barkmann destroyed approximately nine Sherman tanks and many other various vehicles.


(...SNIPPED)

On July 28th, Barkmann reached Coutances and joined the rest of his Kompanie. During two day period, he destroyed fifteen Shermans and other vehicles.
 
Panther suffered 3 flaws, poor final drive, inability to quickly exchange the drive and poor ammo storage. Other than that it was a damm good tank.
 
Colin P said:
Panther suffered 3 flaws, poor final drive, inability to quickly exchange the drive and poor ammo storage. Other than that it was a damm good tank.

I would add, just like the Tiger Series, a Mechanical nightmare to do repairs on, I remember reading articles that to replace a torsion bar, they would have to remove two outside road wheels, plus the inside road wheel, then get into a crawl space and disconnect it. Sounds like a maintainer in the German army must of really hated his life in my opinion.

On the movie side of things I saw the movie yesterday, and I found the tank warfare part fairly realistic such as an 88 going right through a Sherman, but other aspects like the amazing number of shots the EZ8 Sherman took and survived were more plot Armour to help the story then anything else, my and those with me ( a mix of techs and armoured) counted at least 6 times "fury" should of went sky high but didn't. I also have to say its the goriest war movie I've seen in recent memory but does its job well at telling a story that is realistic and connects on a both emotional and psychological level, maybe not with most civi's but many of us shed a tear or two at the end for how they portrayed the final moments of the crew, well all except machine.
 
MilEME09 said:
On the movie side of things I saw the movie yesterday, and I found the tank warfare part fairly realistic such as an 88 going right through a Sherman, but other aspects like the amazing number of shots the EZ8 Sherman took and survived were more plot Armour to help the story then anything else, my and those with me ( a mix of techs and armoured) counted at least 6 times "fury" should of went sky high but didn't. I also have to say its the goriest war movie I've seen in recent memory but does its job well at telling a story that is realistic and connects on a both emotional and psychological level, maybe not with most civi's but many of us shed a tear or two at the end for how they portrayed the final moments of the crew, well all except machine.
It got slammed twice in that engagement, both at highly oblique angles: one off the side and one off the bow.  Not impossible, maybe only improbable.


 
I would have thought the Tiger crew would have identified Fury as the biggest threat and engaged them first.  As well in the final battle scenes the SS troops would have swarmed the with the Panzerfausts early on in.  (In reality,  that is)
 
There was an M4A1 76mm Sherman there in the rear.  I guess hitting the rear vehicle was an acceptable tactic.  I think that was the 76mm Sherman.  But yeah, after that, I'm pretty sure they would have marked the longer-barreled Sherman as the bigger threat.  But meh.  It was April 1945.  The good crews had migrated to the King Tiger by then.  Maybe this was an ersatz crew....
:dunno:
 
Would have ruined the story line by killing them earlier than they did, l suppose.  It didn't spoil the movie for me at any rate.
 
General Disorder said:
It was April 1945.  The good crews had migrated to the King Tiger by then.

Or tank destroyers like the Jagdtiger. Otto Carius and his crew later went to the Jagdtiger.

I find it interesting to read that most German tank destroyer crews were from the Heer's artillery branch, though a number were just panzer crews who were re-assigned.
 
He blamed the high mechanical failure rate on poorly trained drivers. Apparently he destroyed a Sherman by firing the 12.8cm gun through the house it was hiding behind. He felt that had they had the JT a year earlier it would have made a difference as the crews were better back then.
 
That was one of the first uses of the JagdTiger.  From the AAR (which I read in a book, not online, hence no reference link), the US force couldn't determine the location of the firing TDs, but raced for cover behind a house or barn.  Then a tank was hit and destroyed by a shell fired through the building.  The JagdTigers were over a mile away and were deadly accurate.

And yes, if that beast were in the hands of the Wehrmacht in numbers say in early 1944, prior to losing over 1,000,000 combat effective strength in the East and in the West, then maybe it would have delayed the Soviets a bit longer.
 
General Disorder said:
And yes, if that beast were in the hands of the Wehrmacht in numbers say in early 1944, prior to losing over 1,000,000 combat effective strength in the East and in the West, then maybe it would have delayed the Soviets a bit longer.

What if the dreaded Maus tank had been introduced earlier and had been mass produced beyond the 2-3 prototypes expended in combat?

Fortunately for the allies, in spite of the array of arguably superior tanks and tank destroyers the Germans had from the Panther to the Tiger II, wouldn't it be clear that the allies' air superiority and superior numbers of Shermans/Fireflies and Cromwells created by their combined manufacturing output (US-UK/Commonwealth nations) ultimately won out?
 
I thought the movie was pretty dismal to be honest. The Germans seemed hopelessly incompetent in every scene. I'll preface by saying I have zero military experience, so the below are just observations I'm making based on having studied all things military in university and just generally having an unhealthy interest in military affairs. I'd be interested in getting opinions from people here who have more firsthand knowledge. At first glance, the movie seemed like a crock to me at least.

In the first part of the movie, Fury and a few other tanks accompanied by infantry move through a town. At one point, a bunch of German infantry armed with rifles open up from the second floor of a house about 30m directly on front of Fury, which is in the lead. Of course they're immediately wiped out. Why wouldn't they have waited until the tanks were immediately below? The Shermans wouldn't have been able to engage with their main guns so for a few moments at least it would have been a straight infantry fight. I know that there were plenty of poorly trained conscripts at this point, but it still seemed like an overly dumb move.

In the same town a few moments later, Fury rounds a corner and about 20m away is a German AT gun (it looked like a 75 but it was hard to tell). The Germans hit Fury almost right away(though not quickly enough , and then gun crew seems to be frantically adjusting their aim despite the fact that the target is 20 yards away and clearly about to hit them with HE and MG. A good crew would be able to get another round off in just a few seconds (though I suppose it's possible they were trying to hit a more vulnerable part of the tank). Also, even a 50mm round at that close range would have a great chance at penetrating the frontal armour of a Sherman, even the late models.

The final crossroads scene was ridiculous. The approaching SS battalion are clearly seen with numerous Panzerfausts on their shoulders, and yet when they're engaged by Fury it takes quite awhile (hard to tell with the time scale of the movie as it's almost immediatly dark in the next scene, but probably 10 minutes) to get any of them in the fight. Fury is hit with a couple at close range, and one crew member is killed. The Germans then resort to human wave style attacks at night, against an unsupported immobile tank and somehow they can't kill it. Predictably, we're treated to 10 minutes of hapless Germans being machine gunned as they insist on running back and forth across the road right on front of Fury. At one point, Brad Pitt tosses smoke out of the tank so he can grab extra ammo from the .30 on the top of the tank. He's basically obscured his own crew's fields of fire, and somehow the "crack" SS aren't able to take advantage of this. At this point not a single German has even attempted to go around behind the tank and hit it with a Panzerfaust. There are hedgerows on both sides, and still the Germans insist on charging head on into MG fire. Then there's an intrepid German sniper who starts low crawling to within 30m of the tank despite the fact that he could probably hit anyone sticking their head out of the hatch at far further distances
 
Smithsonian Channel has a "Making of" running now. It was very interesting to watch, even without having seen the actual movie yet.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sc/web/show/3415077/tanks-of-fury

All of the real tanks in the film were part of the collection from the Bovington Tank Museum, including the only running Tiger in the world. They would only permit the Tiger to be filmed for one day, and they had to build a concrete pad to run it on for fear of it being damaged during filming. Everyone was impressed with how well it did perform during the shoot.

A lot of the scenes where close-up filming on the deck of the tanks was done using replicas built on a more modern tank chassis with decking to allow film crew to move around the tank as it moved along itself.

Most of the Tigers seen in the film were a combination of replica Tiger on a smaller tank chassis with the tracks, running gear and suspension added in via CGI.

If you get the chance to see it I highly recommend watching it.
 
S.M.A. said:
What if the dreaded Maus tank had been introduced earlier and had been mass produced beyond the 2-3 prototypes expended in combat?

Fortunately for the allies, in spite of the array of arguably superior tanks and tank destroyers the Germans had from the Panther to the Tiger II, wouldn't it be clear that the allies' air superiority and superior numbers of Shermans/Fireflies and Cromwells created by their combined manufacturing output (US-UK/Commonwealth nations) ultimately won out?

As mentioned it would have delayed the inevitable. They should have stopped those super heavies and concentrated fixing the issues with the Panther's final drive DM for DM the Panther was the best bang for their buck with a small numbers of JT's for killing the big Russian heavies. Plus the French might have kept their Panthers for longer post war and perhaps even built further versions of it. The Tiger 1 was supposed to be an excellent tank and well loved by it's crews, except that it was expensive and took to long to build.
 
Colin P said:
As mentioned it would have delayed the inevitable. They should have stopped those super heavies and concentrated fixing the issues with the Panther's final drive DM for DM the Panther was the best bang for their buck with a small numbers of JT's for killing the big Russian heavies. Plus the French might have kept their Panthers for longer post war and perhaps even built further versions of it. The Tiger 1 was supposed to be an excellent tank and well loved by it's crews, except that it was expensive and took to long to build.

Not to mention the Tiger II didn't have a powerful enough engine to run it, there are a lot of "If's" with WWII for example what if Hitler didn't order the Me-262 to be redigned as a fighter-bomber, and it stayed an interceptor allowing it to be deployed in 1943?

We could have a debate until we are old and grey about the what ifs of WWII but thats for another thread i suspect
 
Kilo_302 said:
I thought the movie was pretty dismal to be honest. The Germans seemed hopelessly incompetent in every scene. I'll preface by saying I have zero military experience,

This is where I stopped reading.


In April 1945, most of the German Army was a rag-tag group of fanatics fighting on because...they had no other option and the thought of a defeated Germany was anathema to them.

As an amateur history buff of World War 2 and as a professional soldier, the Germans in the movie seemed about right for that time of the war.  Except maybe the final scene at the cross roads, but that, my friend, is Hollywood.  (And as far as other war movies go, it wasn't that bad)
 
General Disorder said:
This is where I stopped reading.


In April 1945, most of the German Army was a rag-tag group of fanatics fighting on because...they had no other option and the thought of a defeated Germany was anathema to them.

As an amateur history buff of World War 2 and as a professional soldier, the Germans in the movie seemed about right for that time of the war.  Except maybe the final scene at the cross roads, but that, my friend, is Hollywood.  (And as far as other war movies go, it wasn't that bad)

My biggest beef was that they made the US Infantry look like a bunch of goofs.... like that cheesy hand to hand fight scene in front of the treeline. WTF?

'Passchendaele' was better than that!  :nod:
 
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