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Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]

polisci_student

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Hi everyone,

In about a year I'll be graduating from university (political science at Queen's), and have begun looking at grad schools.  I was reading about the Defence Management and Policy programme at RMC, and was wondering if anybody can give me more information about it.  I'm curious about the sort of reputation and career prospects this course has, as well as the sort of students who take it.  I was also wondering what it's like at RMC for civilians.  Do grad students go through ROTP?  If not, would a civilian not wearing uniform fit in with what I would imagine to be a fairly tight clique?  Any information anybody has would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance. 
 
Here's a good start with some info

http://www.rmc.ca/academic/grad/index_e.html

Appears they'll take civilians, so no ROTP required to enter the MA programme.
 
Defence Management is a pretty poorly organized program, from the perspective of a War Studies student.
If you talk to Drs. Pentland or Sokolsky, they would likely refer you to War Studies, DM is more like Policy Studies as opposed to Political Studies/IR
Theres a great civilian community at RMC and great interaction with QCIR as well.  Actually the degree of interaction between officers (generally Maj/LCol) and civilian grad students make it a far more beneficial experience then an MA in POLS or IR at Carleton, Queen's etc.
 
speedbird said:
Defence Management is a pretty poorly organized program, from the perspective of a War Studies student.
If you talk to Drs. Pentland or Sokolsky, they would likely refer you to War Studies, DM is more like Policy Studies as opposed to Political Studies/IR
Theres a great civilian community at RMC and great interaction with QCIR as well.  Actually the degree of interaction between officers (generally Maj/LCol) and civilian grad students make it a far more beneficial experience then an MA in POLS or IR at Carleton, Queen's etc.

If I can offer a suggestion, I had the good fortune to take two four yr courses during my time at Queen's with Dr Sokolsky and would definitely reccomend approaching him. Always found him to be very helpful. Never had the pleasure of meeting Dr Pentland though unfortunately so I'll refrain from posting on that.

Just my two cents...
 
Can you pursue graduate studies in the ROTP program? Fully subsidized and still only serve the same amount of time?

 
NO.

As an inquisitive Tenth Grader, who no doubt is a little Tech Savy, perhaps you should use those skills to read the topics here first, and then ask your questions.  It will save everyone a lot of time and put an end to numerous Threads being created to ask the same questions over and over again, thus making it harder for others to find the information that they are looking for.

 
Actually George, I recently responded to a research request from a young officer who described his situation as follows:

I am a recently-trained phase IV subaltern, who, for his sins, was sent off to do an MA immediately after training.

Now, there was something about lanes .....
 
Isn't this forum open for questions, and assistance to those in need? I'm asking this because maybe if I can't do graduate studies I'm going to change my mind about rotp, or maybe a little curious. I tried to find the question before I asked it, and failed. Find the question I asked, and show me. I'm not here for irrelevant affectation, I'm here to sort my future.
 
DavidWheatcroft said:
Isn't this forum open for questions, and assistance to those in need? I'm asking this because maybe if I can't do graduate studies I'm going to change my mind about rotp, or maybe a little curious. I tried to find the question before I asked it, and failed. Find the question I asked, and show me. I'm not here for irrelevant affectation, I'm here to sort my future.

Ah, I see you're a recent graduate from the Helena Guergis Institute of Tact and Civility
 
David, it is possible, but very rare to go into graduate studies after ROTP and before serving your initial period of obligatory service. Even if you do, it will likely add to, not overlap, your obligatory service.
 
Michael O'Leary said:
Actually George, I recently responded to a research request from a young officer who described his situation as follows:

Now, there was something about lanes .....

Unless ROTP has been changed in the last few months, there is NO Graduate Studies program offered under ROTP.  There are Graduate Studies offered at RMC, but not for ROTP candidates.  Post Graduate Degree/Doctorate are under different programs. 

As for getting a Post Graduate Degree/Doctorate under the same subsidy as given for ROTP, all lumped together, and owing only the VIE of the ROTP education, then that is also not going to happen.

Someone from the CFRG can clarify those facts.
 
Yes George, it's not under the "ROTP" itself, but I saw through that semantic nuance and realized he was asking about the possibility of going on to Graduate Studies directly after graduation.  Whether or not it remains under the ROTP program really isn't the point.
 
I too have been wondering about this topic.  I understand that if I were to have the CF pay for Graduate school that I would be adding to my term of service, and the juming into more school right after graduation is not what I want.  I want to take my first post, get settled in and eventually get a Masters Degree without taking time off from work.  Is it possible to take night courses subsidized while still working with my unit?
 
I have no horse in this race, but people better check their attitudes post haste.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
The primary reference which governs post-graduate studies in the CF is CFAO 9-33 -- POST-GRADUATE TRAINING PROGRAMS REGULAR FORCE AND PRIMARY RESERVE. It outlines 4 separate programs. The first, the General Program is the one most used.

Various organizations within the CF have identified a requirement to have someone working for them with a specific post-graduate qualification, and are willing to foot the bill. The members gets education subsidized, and then goes to work for the organization that sponsored them for a specific period of time, typically 2 years. This incurs obligatory service. As well, the program is typically only open for a specific degree at a specific institution, although some do mention the degree can be taken at "Any Canadian University".
The eligibility requirements are as follows:
9. To be considered for selection for PGT, an officer will normally:
a. by 1 Sep of the year in which the PG training is to commence, have completed three years commissioned service;
b. have sufficient time remaining in his present period of service, after graduation, to complete the obligatory service resulting from participation in a PG programme, as prescribed in CFAO 15-7;
c. meet the appropriate educational prerequisites; and
d. meet such other conditions as the CDS may prescribe.

The second program outlined is the "Training on Scholarship Programme", and is the only program where one can typically proceed on subsidized post-graduate education immediately after finishing an undergraduate degree via ROTP or UTPNCM. It is a tough one to get authorization for, and is only for personnel who have won a "prestigious scholarship." Specifically mentioned in the CFAO is that "Preference will be given to those scholarships that are universally recognized, such as the Rhodes scholarship." As you can imagine, this program is bloody rare. This article mentions that RMC has only had a total of 12 Rhodes scholars ever. The most recent, in 2008, would not have been eligible for this program anyways, as he was at RMC via the Reserve Entry Training Plan vice ROTP. The one previous to that was in 1987. I'm sure there's a few scattered cases of this program being used for prestigious scholarships that aren't at Oxford, but still, it's a rare event.

The third program outlined is "Training Under The DND Military and Strategic Studies Programme", and I believe it is for those senior (or soon to be) officers being sent to staff college. You need at least 10 years commissioned service to be eligible.

The fourth is "Post-Graduate Training - Primary Reserve", which allows for reserve officers to receive post-gradate training at RMC in Military History, War Studies, or Engineering and Science. This is paid for by their reserve unit.

These are the options for full-time post-graduate education. As well, there is the option of doing part-time education on top of your full-time job, via the "Advanced Degree - Part-Time Programme for Regular force Officers" program, outlined in CF Military Personnel Instructions 18/04. For this one you must be Reg Force, Trade Qualified, not on LWOP, not already have a Master's degree or higher, and be applying for a degree which "specified military, occupational or organizational requirement". Approval must come from your L1 or a designated authority no lower than BGen/Cmdre.

Oh yes. Also, each of these will incur additional obligatory service. Any full-time post grad is at the same rate as ROTP. Any part-time post grad incurs 1 additional month of obligatory service per $2,000 subsidized.
 
I cannot open any of those links, but that information was exactly what I was looking for. 

Thank you.
 
Hello all,
I have an under graduate degree in Economics, a Juris Doctor (JD, law degree), and an LLM (Masters of Law). I am interesting in pursuing more schooling. There are programs at RMC that I am interested in and I have a great desire to serve. I have been looking for answers to the following:
1) If I go to RMC for post-grad, will I also be able to go through officer training?
2) Has anyone else done PG work with RMC? I'd enjoy hearing about your experience there.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
PTD
 
Also if this discussion has come up already, please feel free to direct me to the right area-forum.  :salute:
 
This seems to be the answer I was looking for, so if you find yourself here check out the following.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/93569.0

 
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