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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
  • Start date Start date
I really have my work cut out for me here. But you know, I'm really glad that you asked because there's alot of ignorance about the history of the Palestinian diaspora, especially in the West. That's why I'm here!

I honestly had a good chuckle when I read "odds are that you were born an Arab"! This tells me how successful the Israeli propaganda and Hasbara machine have been in convincing many that there is really no such thing as Palestinian people. Just some "Arabs" roaming the deserts of the Negev and Transjordan until Israel was created.
Interesting that you bring up TransJordan, because a logical division of the British Mandate area probably would have ethnically partitioned the country into Israel and Jordan from the get go.



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Just like many other hundreds of thousands of 2nd/3rd generation Palestinian refugees born in the diaspora, I was born in Saudi Arabia.
Any chance you’ve given some thought to why they had to go?

Most of my parents' generation turned to higher education as their only option (having lost their farming lands and businesses), became doctors, teachers, engineers... etc and many found work in the Gulf Countries.
Good for them.
Now, your next question "Why then move away from your birth country". This shows a lack of knowledge of the Arab world, because the answer is simple. It's because there is no Arab country that grants citizenship by birth only (especially the rich gulf countries, I guess to limit the distribution of their wealth). So Palestinians (and their offspring) remained Palestinians in the Arab world.
Palestinian’s and Arabs in that area, aren’t exactly alone in that issue, Jordanians from the West Bank end up basically stateless as well. My wife has a coworker whose family came to America as they lost their country. They were Jordanian Christian’s, but due to the Jordanian government’s invasion of Israel ended up no longer Jordanian…



In the Gulf, you could live there for generations and still be denied public services (public higher education, health care insurance, real estate ownership ...etc ) and above all, the sense of stability and security.

So we were still considered stateless (with an Egyptian Travel Document, which is a semi-passport that even Egypt wouldn't let you in with), getting close to graduating high school with no available college/university options in Saudi (back then there were no private universities in Saudi, things have changed now). So Canada was an option and the rest is history.
Best advice, let go of the old world and embrace the new.
You will live a much longer and healthier life.

As for how/why I still have family in Gaza, well it's because not the whole "clan" left Gaza. Long story short, some family member had to leave Gaza as a result of the 1967 war (like my parents and grand parents, so they lost their right to return) while many other family members stayed till this day.
Imagine that.
Now whose fault do you think that was? I’d suggest the Arab League probably should bear the brunt of responsibility.
Now I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your response will be: "hmm, I wonder why their Arab brothers wouldn't give the Palestinians citizenship and integrate them into their societies?"
Oh I think we all know why, and no it’s not really the fact that Palestinians are problematic, or at least not then. After the 1948 War, the 1956-57 Suez Crisis, and the 1967 Six Day War, where each time Israel not just successfully defended and defeated invading Arab nations but also occupied more and more land. The Arab governments encouraged Palestinian refugees to ‘remain Palestinian’ and promised their land back when Israel was finally defeated.

Even Egypt which was the first to recognize Israel, hasn’t accepted Palestinian refugees as citizens. Which one has to assume has some underlying goal.

So I feel badly for the Palestinians who get abused by pretty much everyone, as they ‘plight’ isn’t solely of their own making, and realistically belongs to the Arab nations that have continually attacked Israel (and failed).
Many of those nations were encouraged by the Soviet Union as a way to conduct a proxy war with America, and since 1979 have been used by Islamic fundamentalists, who have political and religiously charged the entire area and doomed the Palestinians to a pretty shitty life, which has taken on a perpetual cycle of violence.
 
I honestly had a good chuckle when I read "odds are that you were born an Arab"! This tells me how successful the Israeli propaganda and Hasbara machine have been in convincing many that there is really no such thing as Palestinian people. Just some "Arabs" roaming the deserts of the Negev and Transjordan until Israel was created.
Go dig into the census data from the Ottoman period to the census data complied by the Americans. The population of the area was quite low under the Ottomans for both Arab and Jew, with the Arabs being the majority. Once the British took over the population began to climb with both the Arab and Jewish population increasing at roughly the same rate. This was because of the the economic activity the British encouraged and the basic health services the British brought in that vastly improved the dismal infant mortality rate. Basically the Ottomans had treated the Arabs like dirt and the Jews with disdain and physical harm. Ottoman tax polices discouraged economic activity and likley there was a lot of unreporting and avoidance by the Arabs.
Similar happened under the French Mandate, although I have not been able to find similar numbers in English broken down for that region.
 
Go dig into the census data from the Ottoman period to the census data complied by the Americans. The population of the area was quite low under the Ottomans for both Arab and Jew, with the Arabs being the majority. Once the British took over the population began to climb with both the Arab and Jewish population increasing at roughly the same rate. This was because of the the economic activity the British encouraged and the basic health services the British brought in that vastly improved the dismal infant mortality rate. Basically the Ottomans had treated the Arabs like dirt and the Jews with disdain and physical harm. Ottoman tax polices discouraged economic activity and likley there was a lot of unreporting and avoidance by the Arabs.
Similar happened under the French Mandate, although I have not been able to find similar numbers in English broken down for that region.

More proof, if required, that those Ottomans were geniuses... ;)
 
More proof, if required, that those Ottomans were geniuses... ;)
Turks had a saying; "Better to kick an Arab than a dog" So much for brotherly love....

Take this article with a grain of salt as the Saudis have a long grudge against the Ottomans/Turks. but it does give you a taste of Ottoman rule and the realities of living in the region. Not to mention how little the Ottomans cared for "holy sites" . The Saudis did capture Mecca in a very ISIS manner and got trounced by the Ottomans and then the Saudis regained it by stealing mecca from their Arab brothers post 1916.

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1708406
 
Once the British took over the population began to climb with both the Arab and Jewish population increasing at roughly the same rate. This was because of the the economic activity the British encouraged and the basic health services the British brought in that vastly improved the dismal infant mortality rate.
Don’t forget Aqueduct 2.0…improved version of the Romans’ V1.0
 
I really have my work cut out for me here. But you know, I'm really glad that you asked because there's alot of ignorance about the history of the Palestinian diaspora, especially in the West. That's why I'm here!
This hits harder when read in Chrystia Freeland voice.

Now I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your response will be: "hmm, I wonder why their Arab brothers wouldn't give the Palestinians citizenship and integrate them into their societies?"
Do you really think people are wondering why?
 
$1B USD is a lot to obliviously or accidentally invest into a terrorist grouping.
Almost as bad as the CRA refusing to collect CERB payments that were fraudulent

Seriously it’s not a real surprise 😮 more like a hmmmm
 
More from Team Hamas's fans ...
 
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Thousands sing, dance and celebrate at Pride Parade until protesters strand marchers and floats mid-route



Woke Wars
I can’t help but snicker. Sorry but if you are stupid enough to think a fundamentalist religious group is your friend when one of the things they preach against is gay people.,,
 

Thousands sing, dance and celebrate at Pride Parade until protesters strand marchers and floats mid-route



Woke Wars
Must stock up on popcorn
 
Interesting, and clearly a standard, sustainable, and low intensity warfare approach...


IDF, Netanyahu fought over PA in Gaza, now its about withdrawal - Analysis​

The main goals of the war have always been returning the hostages and defeating Hamas. Now it seems the IDF and PM Netanyahu feel differently about which of these goals to prioritize.​


When the Post was in Rafah a week ago, there was almost no gunfire or bombings as compared to when it visited Gaza City and Khan Yunis earlier in the war.

Hamas fled from the IDF in Rafah in record numbers, with only around 600 killed out of 3,000-8,000 fighters.

Most defense officials wonder: If the IDF has no one to fight, why not stop the war?

Sinwar has made it clear that he will release all or most of the hostages if the IDF withdraws from Gaza.

Of course, it would have to be done in stages to make sure that the IDF does not carry out a full withdrawal before already getting many hostages.

But that is not what Netanyahu wants.

He wants a blurry line of merely declaring an end to major operations while keeping the mop-up, low-intensity conflict with Hamas open indefinitely.

On those terms, there has been no deal with Hamas for months, and this has angered top IDF officials.

Moreover, top IDF officials want to officially shift their attention and forces to the North to stare down Hezbollah or invade it if need be.

 
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