Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[dimsum]

Mmmm, nope…the US Embassy is in Jerusalem, 300m from the West Bank territory. No IRA missiles anywhere near there. Just protecting the Israeli people…no selfish motivation, at least at the tactical level. A heck of a lot more for Israel than an open offer to convene something…

Even Iran wouldn’t be crazy enough to lob missiles anywhere near the Al-Aqsa mosque.

 

[Kirkhill]

New documentary reveals forgotten history of how Jews were expelled from Arab lands

A new film by VisionTV, The Forgotten Expulsion: Jews from Arab Lands, aims to reveal this history

nationalpost.com

Interesting article - Muslim Palestinians and Jewish Arabs forcibly separated circa 1947.

Same dynamic between Pakistani Hindus and Indian Muslims, along with the Punjabi Sikhs.

For exactly the same reasons - reasons that pre-date the Brits.

 

[Kirkhill]

I hope you can all read this although it might be behind a paywall.

‘Not one girl could be shown to her parents’: The horrors of Oct 7 – as told by the survivors

In a heartbreaking dispatch to mark the anniversary, witnesses recall the heroism of victims and the true depravity of the attack

www.telegraph.co.uk

One of seven tales.

6.35am: Around the time Shari Mendes got her Order 8, Nimrod Palmach, who was staying near Tel Aviv, received an order from his company commander to report to army HQ near Jerusalem. Former special forces, Nimrod was now a reservist in the search and rescue team. He disobeyed the order, arguing that his brigade should head south to the Gazan border, although he’s still not quite sure why. He told his commander something didn’t feel right. “A hunch. I felt it was much worse than we were being told. There were two voices; one was telling me to trust my instincts, the second was saying, ‘Be modest, trust the IDF, who do you think you are?’”

Choosing the former, Palmach, who runs an NGO that involves networking and outreach for young Israelis across the Arab world, drove south trying to build a picture of what had happened along the way. The only weapon he had was a pistol which contained nine bullets.

Nimrod, 39, got a call from his ex-wife who was sobbing. Her new husband was from Kibbutz Nir Oz – it was under attack from hundreds of terrorists. “I had already heard about the attack on Sderot [the closest Israeli city to the Gaza border, where more than 50 residents were killed]. So now I understand. Israel has been invaded and the Gaza division has been overwhelmed. Hamas took down intelligence, they took down antennae, even my phone was scrambled. No one [in the hierarchy] knew what was going on. The radio is supposed to give members of the IDF a secret password to tell them go, go! Red alert, it’s a war. But they couldn’t even do that. No radio. Three thousand rockets in the first 20 minutes; we were overwhelmed, the entire system is crippled.”

He says he suddenly had “the most crushing realisation that I’m about to die. There are thousands of them.” He paused briefly by the side of the road to record a video saying goodbye to his two kids so when the army found his body his children would have something to remember. “I said, ‘Daddy loves you and he will be proud of you the rest of your lives.’” Then, he texted army mates telling them to get down there asap. “If you have a gun come here now, you’ll save lives.”

He was stopped at a special forces checkpoint near Netivot around 9am, and they prevented him going any further. So he hopped on a pick-up truck, which was allowed through, and soon found himself fighting alongside a collection of random soldiers and ordinary Israelis outside Kibbutz Alumim. He managed to pick up a dead terrorist’s gun. “I was one of the first responders, the only one who survived the whole day, I think. There wasn’t time to communicate with people. It was the fight of our lives, a handful of us against hundreds and hundreds of terrorists. You’re outgunned, outnumbered. I saw many examples of bravery, even civilians. We gave everything we had to try to stop it.”

Everyone he came across until 7.30pm that night was dead. At the Alumim junction, he counted 23 bodies. “All of them were kids, like young adults. I didn’t know about the Nova festival. I was asking ‘Why are they dressed like that?’” Near the roadside, he found the body of a young woman, “her trousers pulled down, her underwear, blood on her backside.” Instinctively, Nimrod started to dress her.

“Of course they raped women,” Nimrod almost shouts. On one terrorist’s body, he found a detailed map of the kibbutzim and a list of Hebrew phrases. “Pull your pants down” was one of them. It was hard to preserve evidence, he says, because everyone was picking up the bodies as fast as possible. Hamas was still kidnapping the dead and taking them over the border.

Palmach believes that Hamas was unaware the Nova festival was taking place. He thinks they could have made serious progress towards Tel Aviv, but conversations the terrorists had on video suggest the lure of raping beautiful young girls at the desert party was too tempting. “Suddenly, after all those years, the monster was released. A lot of them left their tasks. They were supposed to go to Israeli air force bases. Imagine the humiliation of a bunch of jihadists wearing their sandals standing next to an F35!”

He will never forget the carnage he witnessed in places like Kibbutz Be’eri. “I saw it all – women raped, dead kids in cars, families burned, some with body parts, some without. And the damage to the buildings, like a tornado passed. I saw the Holocaust,” he says. “So many dead bodies, many mutilated. The creativity of the deaths was overwhelming. A head speared on a rake. Hamas terrorists took their time. We didn’t have an army that day. I’ve seen what happens to the Jewish people without an army.”

Palmach, who spent five years in the special forces, says he wanted to go into Gaza. “I wanted to go not for revenge, but to see the Israeli army in a strong position. Our army was caught by surprise that day. I want to see the strength and power of the IDF again.”

Militarily, he thinks Israel has been doing the right thing. “We’ve moved slowly, taken our time. You can’t clean Gaza in a week. We’re not shooting then checking, we’re checking then shooting. That’s what we do. We’re obligated in our moral fabric to bring the hostages back. We can strike Hamas to the point where it’s no longer a threat. I think we are 90 per cent of the way there.”

Like many survivors, Nimrod Palach is haunted by What Ifs. There is a desperately sad video, unbearable actually, of two girls being pursued by a terrorist. He shoots the first one, then the other drops to her knees and begs for her life. There is a brief pause before he shoots her in the head.

Nimrod thought he recognised the place where it happened. It was a few feet away from where he was at the Alumim junction. Why couldn’t he have saved her? Recently, he couldn’t sleep and he got in the car and drove to the spot. When he got there, he knelt down and said a prayer. In the dirt, he spotted the young woman’s credit card. “I saw her name, I called her mother. She answered. I said, ‘I’m sorry.’ We both cried.”

Earlier this week, as Iranian missiles were launched against Israel, I texted Nimrod to check he and the family were OK. It took a second before he texted back, “WE WILL WIN!” With people like him, of course they will.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Israel has also directly attacked a sovereign state as well, as Lebanon is a sovereign state. That is also a direct open ended declaration of war. Israel also bombed Irans embassy in Syria, which is also a direct open ended declaration of war.

Nukes are never justified. We cannot allow them to be. If we do Ukraine would be a glowing ruin.

As long as Iran's proxies are sitting in Lebanon occasionally attacking Israel, and Lebanon can't or won't do something about it, Israel can't really be denied the right to cross the border and deal with it whenever it sees fit.

 

[OldSolduer]

Official announcements are parsed in detail by the intended recipient as well as all our allies. Some messages are worse than staying silednt. IMHO this was one of a long string of such messages coming out of the current Canadian government. OTOH, I'm not hearing anything positive coming out of the mouths of the official opposition either.

It actually isn't. The situation is brilliantly clear. Canada is suffering from a self-inflicted wound in trying to suck and blow at the same time. Is it that hard to say that "we stand in solidarity with those Muslim nations that want peace with Israel and we denounce those nations and groups who commit or support terrorist acts."

To say that Israel should only "respond in a calibrated and proportional way" and to call for a ceasefire when Iran and its lackeys only want time to be better prepared to destroy Israel is naïve and mealy-mouthed.

Well said - taking the middle of the fence position and not committing to either side. Typical of this government.

Mealy mouthed is a good way to put it. Israel will remember who stood with them and they will remember who sat on the sidelines.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well said - taking the middle of the fence position and not committing to either side. Typical of this government.

Mealy mouthed is a good way to put it. Israel will remember who stood with them and they will remember who sat on the sidelines, convening.

There, FTFY

 

[YZT580]

OTOH, if Canada didn’t say anything then there would be calls that “one of the founding NATO countries remains silent on this conflict”.

Kind of a shitty rock-vs-hard place situation.

what is that statement? It is better to remain silent and have people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Change the adjective to whatever you choose. For Blair et al it is appropriate

 

[dimsum]

what is that statement? It is better to remain silent and have people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Change the adjective to whatever you choose. For Blair et al it is appropriate

For what it’s worth, I agree with you.

However, for political reasons, politicians feel the need to make statements when things like this happen, especially when their allies are saying things. I’m not saying that they said the correct things, but I’m saying they may have thought that it was worse to say nothing than to say something.

But I’m just spitballing here.

 

[Quirky]

what is that statement? It is better to remain silent and have people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Colin, I believe you misspelled Canada.

USA was busy putting its money where its mouth was as an ally of Israel and spending a few greenbacks on launching ‘more than a few’ SM-3 ABM missiles from a number of USN DDGs in the Eastern Med.

Except they were mostly defending themselves and not doing much to deter the attacks until yesterday. I know part of the issue is that there are few easy targets to destroy in Yemen.

 

[OldSolduer]

For what it’s worth, I agree with you.

However, for political reasons, politicians feel the need to make statements when things like this happen, especially when their allies are saying things. I’m not saying that they said the correct things, but I’m saying they may have thought that it was worse to say nothing than to say something.

But I’m just spitballing here.

FWIW Canada has lost a great deal of standing in NATO and the G7 nations. I've said this before: We used to stand for something.

Now Canada dithers....

 

[Halifax Tar]

I hope you can all read this although it might be behind a paywall.

‘Not one girl could be shown to her parents’: The horrors of Oct 7 – as told by the survivors

In a heartbreaking dispatch to mark the anniversary, witnesses recall the heroism of victims and the true depravity of the attack

www.telegraph.co.uk

One of seven tales.

There are a series of articles from the Telegraph much like this, terribly hard to read and emotional. This was an act of barbarism and evil not just war or terrorism. It disgusts and revolts me. I wish I could do more to help Israel.

 

[lenaitch]

It isn't 's job to "put Iran back I it's place." Unless I've lost the ability to read and reason, that job belongs to the entire United Nations, as stated in the Preamble to its Charter. It is the duty of e.g. , , , and to send a "peacekeeping" force to the region, to occupy (and any of its neighbours that try to interfere). That 'peacekeeping force' ought to be led by several carrier battle groups and several army divisions and it should be very clear, to all, that it will impose the will of the world, that part which still believes in the UN's Charter, on those, including some UNSC members, who don't.

That's 'peacemaking' not 'peacekeeping'. Right now, there is no peace to keep.

The UN principles of peacekeeping assumes (a) the consent of both sides to the presence of the peacekeepers, (b) impartiality of the peacekeepers and, (c) non use-of-force except for self-defence or defence of the mandate.

Does anyone see that existing here?

 

[Rifleman62]

There are a series of articles from the Telegraph much like this, terribly hard to read and emotional. This was an act of barbarism and evil not just war or terrorism. It disgusts and revolts me. I wish I could do more to help Israel.

And we, and other countries allow these pro Hamas/anti-Jewish demonstrations to continue. Ashamed is not a strong enough sentiment.

 

[Kirkhill]

There are now more Muslims in Canada than Jews. That's why the Liberal statement is what it is.

Activism appears to mean different things to those communities of Canadians.

 

[FSTO]

OTOH, if Canada didn’t say anything then there would be calls that “one of the founding NATO countries remains silent on this conflict”.

Kind of a shitty rock-vs-hard place situation.

Seriously, would anyone other than us notice.

 

[Kirkhill]

Seriously, would anyone other than us notice.

In the words of an ancient toast ...

"Damned few, and they're all dead."

 

[brihard]

And we, and other countries allow these pro Hamas/anti-Jewish demonstrations to continue. Ashamed is not a strong enough sentiment.

What legal threshold would you apply to completely prohibit the entirety of a public protest? The lawfulness of an assembly isn’t dependant on the righteousness of the cause; you can lawfully assemble and protest the absolute dumbest shit. Individuals within a large crowd can commit criminal offences, but it takes a lot for an entire assembly to become unlawful and to fall outside the protections of the Charter- even if what they’re expressing is repugnant.

A protest of a couple thousand people in a major urban centre that assembles, is noisy and disruptive, but is not violent, and then voluntarily disperses in short order is an event with a lot of legal protection. This can absolutely happen notwithstanding that some individuals within the crowd may, eg, express in a way that constitutes wilful promotion of hatred. They can be pursued and dealt with individually.

This always comes back to ‘careful what you wish for’ when you want the state to clamp down on assembly and expression. What ver rules are set today will remain in effect in months and years to come.

 

[Kirkhill]

What legal threshold would you apply to completely prohibit the entirety of a public protest? The lawfulness of an assembly isn’t dependant on the righteousness of the cause; you can lawfully assemble and protest the absolute dumbest shit. Individuals within a large crowd can commit criminal offences, but it takes a lot for an entire assembly to become unlawful and to fall outside the protections of the Charter- even if what they’re expressing is repugnant.

A protest of a couple thousand people in a major urban centre that assembles, is noisy and disruptive, but is not violent, and then voluntarily disperses in short order is an event with a lot of legal protection. This can absolutely happen notwithstanding that some individuals within the crowd may, eg, express in a way that constitutes wilful promotion of hatred. They can be pursued and dealt with individually.

This always comes back to ‘careful what you wish for’ when you want the state to clamp down on assembly and expression. What ver rules are set today will remain in effect in months and years to come.

We have our differences Brihard but on this one I come down four square with you.

Regardless of the cause the demonstrations should be allowed. I accept that historically that would have meant pro-Nazi demonstrations in WW2 (they happened anyway - especially in Canada).

We can debate the management of the demonstration and what is acceptable disruption.

(Honk. Honk. )

 

[Quirky]

Let these anti-semetic pro-hamas demonstrations go on. It reveals just how toxic our society (major cities) have become and why to avoid them.