Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[OldSolduer]

This person is entitled to their opinions and we are entitled to fire back.

Perhaps a foreign service is taking interest in their vociferous support of a terrorist organization. You never know....

 

[abduly85]

I actually thought that he was a bot before I looked at his profile and it says that he joined the site in

Sorry to disappoint you but yeah, not a bot!
Not only that, I was actually picked to participate in the Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) in Esquimalt back in the day and was accepted then as a Marine Systems Engineer (I actually scored well during that week of interviews and tests). For family reasons, I decided not to proceed before staring my Basic.

Anyways comrades, we're all Canadians here and it's good to have a dissenting voice that challenges the status quo. Nothing wrong with criticising a foreign country that's been found to be plausibly engaged in genocide (ie. Israel). And I've been citing credible new sources and human rights organization (not some obscure news site from India!)

Let's keep it civil, debate/discuss the points presented and stop with the name calling (ie. Terrorist, go back to "Hezzbolah?".. Etc).
I'm at my wits' end and seriously thinking of deactivating my account ( just kidding, I'm finally making this thread more lively).

 

[Remius]

Sorry to disappoint you but yeah, not a bot!
Not only that, I was actually picked to participate in the Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) in Esquimalt back in the day and was accepted then as a Marine Systems Engineer (I actually scored well during that week of interviews and tests). For family reasons, I decided not to proceed before staring my Basic.

Anyways comrades, we're all Canadians here and it's good to have a dissenting voice that challenges the status quo. Nothing wrong with criticising a foreign country that's been found to be plausibly engaged in genocide (ie. Israel). And I've been citing credible new sources and human rights organization (not some obscure news site from India!)

Did the world court actually come to that conclusion? And if it does not are you going to accept the results? You ignored that last question.

In fact the world court hadn’t even ordered a cessation if military actions.

But you seem to think a decision has been rendered on the alleged accusations.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... The convoy was hit like a HVT convoy in civilian areas and munitions used to contain the damage to the vehicles where used.

Looks like, even to a less-trained eye like mine - especially given this from an earlier Twitter thread pointing to gunmen being part of the aid convoy ....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776210566048080260

.... combined with this condolence notice issued by a private security/military company after the attack (also archived here) ...

Announcement from Solace Global

In memory of the courageous aid workers who lost their lives in a strike in Gaza. Our thoughts are with their loved ones.

www.solaceglobal.com

... and this from the IDF's English-language statement re: its investigation (also archived here and here - text also attached)

More on the security company

About Us - Risk

Risk management solutions to expand your decision space in a crisis. Risk management specialists with a 24/7/365 security operations centre.

www.solaceglobal.com

More on the IDF's take from U.S. lobby group AIPAC

https://www.aipac.org/resources/update-idf-investigation-world-central-kitchen

 

[CBH99]

Sorry to disappoint you but yeah, not a bot!
Not only that, I was actually picked to participate in the Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) in Esquimalt back in the day and was accepted then as a Marine Systems Engineer (I actually scored well during that week of interviews and tests). For family reasons, I decided not to proceed before staring my Basic.

Anyways comrades, we're all Canadians here and it's good to have a dissenting voice that challenges the status quo. Nothing wrong with criticising a foreign country that's been found to be plausibly engaged in genocide (ie. Israel). And I've been citing credible new sources and human rights organization (not some obscure news site from India!)

Let's keep it civil, debate/discuss the points presented and stop with the name calling (ie. Terrorist, go back to "Hezzbolah?".. Etc).
I'm at my wits' end and seriously thinking of deactivating my account ( just kidding, I'm finally making this thread more lively).

This is the first post of yours I've seen so far, and I can't find anything to really disagree with.

It's a discussion forum, where different ideas are discussed - often times the very nature of the topics that make their way onto this forum can be polarizing...

Politics, geopolitics, wars, corruption by the folks none of us want to be corrupt, economics, speculation on military matters, etc...what could possibly result in name calling and finger pointing when discussing such unifying topics as those?


If posting articles from fairly competent news sources generates debate because it challenges widely held narratives, that's a good thing & shouldn't result in name calling.

Would be a pretty boring discussion forum if we were all in agreement on all things, all of the time!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Let's keep it civil, debate/discuss the points presented and stop with the name calling (ie. Terrorist, go back to "Hezzbolah?".. Etc).
I'm at my wits' end and seriously thinking of deactivating my account ( just kidding, I'm finally making this thread more lively).

This is part of a cycle that gets played out here.

Someone jumps in a conversation with a contentious posting style, immediately takes heat for it, then quickly becomes the victim. "Why is everyone ganging up on me?". Then they try and walk it back with a "let's all be civil". But they can't walk it back because they've already shown everyone their hand.

Certianly its intentional but in the off chance it's not you should check the definition of comrades, because it doesnt apply to us. I suspect yours are out glueing themselves to roads, calling Hamas resistance fighters while excusing their murderos and rapey behavior, and acting like chanting from the river to the sea isn't a call to genocide.

No one is impressed when someone 'almost did basic' nearly 20 years ago. Children in the cadet program have more clout than the almost served crowd. I hope you were just stating a fact and not looking for any sort of recognition.



Palestinians invited snakes into their houses for the last 16 years. Snakes who made tunnels under their kids beds. Despite the 'own goal' going on, it's still terrible what's happening to them. Of course. Yet, support for Hamas increased with Palestinians. You can ignore or whitewash Hamas's behavior as much as you want. It didn't turn our so well for Palestinians but you're in a more privileged and safe space to do so so you should be okay.

 

[OldSolduer]

Palestinians invited snakes into their houses for the last 16 years. Snakes who made tunnels under their kids beds. Despite the 'own goal' going on, it's still terrible what's happening to them. Of course. Yet, support for Hamas increased with Palestinians. You can ignore or whitewash Hamas's behavior as much as you want. It didn't turn our so well for Palestinians but you're in a more privileged and safe space to do so so you should be okay.

I would say in "parent's basement".

 

[Jarnhamar]

I would say in "parent's basement".

Social media has played such a huge roll with the Israel-Palestine war. The ability for something to be trending is powerful, lots of people are willing to stand in traffic for a place they can't even find on a map.

I was surprised when my teenage kid, who has never taken an interest in politics or world events, cornered me to find out which side I supported. When I responded about the situation being complex and both sides having valid grievances against each other she got upset and started talking about a teenage Palestinian girl being exploded and stuck hanging against a wall. My kid was only rhyming off all the harm being done to innocent Palestinian civilians and had no idea who or what Hamas was, let alone the events of October 7th. It was a pretty shocking missing piece of the whole situation.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Social media has played such a huge roll with the Israel-Palestine war. The ability for something to be trending is powerful, lots of people are willing to stand in traffic for a place they can't even find on a map.

I was surprised when my teenage kid, who has never taken an interest in politics or world events, cornered me to find out which side I supported. When I responded about the situation being complex and both sides having valid grievances against each other she got upset and started talking about a teenage Palestinian girl being exploded and stuck hanging against a wall. My kid was only rhyming off all the harm being done to innocent Palestinian civilians and had no idea who or what Hamas was, let alone the events of October 7th. It was a pretty shocking missing piece of the whole situation.

I had a very similar experience a young person lately. She admitted to getting her info from TikTok, IG and X.

We need to understand the role social media will have in future conflicts. And we need to understand it can truly have grave effects on the home front, which will undermine support.

 

[abduly85]

Did the world court actually come to that conclusion? And if it does not are you going to accept the results? You ignored that last question.

In fact the world court hadn’t even ordered a cessation if military actions.

But you seem to think a decision has been rendered on the alleged accusations.

Sorry for not being prompt in my responses, but between OldSolduer privately messaging me calling me a terrorist, calling CSIS on me and the other 1,200 Army.ca members ganging up on me I can barely catch up! It's all good though and I'll make time specially for you.

Yes, the ICJ has found that South Africa's claim that Israel is commiting genocide to be "plausible" and that's why:

1. The ICJ is proceeding with the full trial (takes month or years). The Court didn't throw away the case as argued by Israel's defence team.
2. The ICJ Issued on Jan 26th a dozen or provisional measures (orders) to Israel to eleminate the risk of genocide
3. A month or so after the first batch of order, the court again issued additional orders to Israel as the situation gotten worse and "that famine is setting in” (ICJ exact words). The need for issuing additional orders meant that Israel didn't comply to the first batch of orders.

No one is saying that Israel has been "charged" with genocide, but the likelihood is high and hence the trial. It's like a suspected murderer on trial who hasn't been yet formally charged, but there's mounting evidence for the crime.

I highly recommend listening to the raw court ruling on Jan 26 (it's 40 minutes) but it really cites the evidence and quote by Israeli officially showing the intent of genocide:

Yes, I will accept the final ruling. Now do you or will you accept the ICJ orders and rulings?
Yes the ICJ didn't include an order for ceasefire (there's whole debate on why, I think mainly because Hamas is not a state or a signatory to the statute) but that doesn't change the case that the court has found the risk of genocide by Israel to be plausible and hence proceeding to trial.

Finally, whether it's called "genocide" or not, the fact on ground is that massacres have happened (over 25,000 as quoted by the US Secretary of Defence Lloyd Austin) , whole families were killed and erased from public records, all universities destroyed, mosques, churches, schools, hospitals, bakeries... Etc. Almost all human rights groups have documented these atrocities and called for a ceasefire and release of all hostages.

 

[ueo]

You act like no one else has ever hit a civilian target before.

They used a very specific Hellfire variant in that strike to limit damage to the surround area - so yes I think it’s a clear indication that there was a misidentification.

The convoy was hit like a HVT convoy in civilian areas and munitions used to contain the damage to the vehicles where used.

I accept the first hit might be due to the "Fog of War" but the second and third smack of deliberate targetting. IDF statements/admissions yesterday appear to support this POV.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I accept the first hit might be due to the "Fog of War" but the second and third smack of deliberate targetting. IDF statements/admissions yesterday appear to support this POV.

It also looks like Hamas gunmen were mingling in and out of the convoy.

 

[ueo]

It also looks like Hamas gunmen were mingling in and out of the convoy.

Didn't pickup on that. What source?

 

[Furniture]

Didn't pickup on that. What source?

The IDF investigation linked earlier by @The Bread Guy

https://www.idf.il/190614

 

[ueo]

The IDF investigation linked earlier by @The Bread Guy

https://www.idf.il/190614

Thanks, lotsa weasel words but apparently believable, Makes some sense of a FU situation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Cascades of events leading to deliberate attacks on innocents are inevitable - a finite probability of an event on any given day accumulates into a greater probability of something over time.

None of the caterwauling is going to offset Oct 7 unless the legitimate authority of Israel does something comparable in scope, scale, and intent.

 

[Quirky]

None of the caterwauling is going to offset Oct 7 unless the legitimate authority of Israel does something comparable in scope, scale, and intent.

That would be the IDF marching into gaza and killing every man, woman and child, flattening every building and returning the land to the desert. Hamas, most of the people of gaza and Hezbollah would love nothing more than to completely eradicate Israel. The anti-semites of the world like the UN, South Africa, a certain poster in this thread and the ICJ would legitimize it, because gaza is the victim in all this.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Operation MAGIC: Make Gaza Israeli City… yikes!

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

marching into [gaza] and killing every man, woman and child, flattening every building

I believe there was a lot of that in the Torah. If I recall from the Book of Joshua, it also involved oxen, sheep and asses somehow.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Cascades of events leading to deliberate attacks on innocents are inevitable - a finite probability of an event on any given day accumulates into a greater probability of something over time.

None of the caterwauling is going to offset Oct 7 unless the legitimate authority of Israel does something comparable in scope, scale, and intent.

Basically your logic is evil is ok as long as they are repeating what has been done to them?

The Israelis have done more in scale, scope, and intent than what happened on Oct 7th already.

That would be the IDF marching into gaza and killing every man, woman and child, flattening every building and returning the land to the desert. Hamas, most of the people of gaza and Hezbollah would love nothing more than to completely eradicate Israel. The anti-semites of the world like the UN, South Africa, a certain poster in this thread and the ICJ would legitimize it, because gaza is the victim in all this.

Ahh yes committing the act of genocide because of the actions of a terrorist group. This post is literally Hitlers final solution except your applying it to Gaza instead of the Jews.