High Ranking Police Folk Allegedly Behaving Badly

[Fishbone Jones]

Sorry, I know I should, but I can't trust the system to police itself anymore. Whether the RCMP, ethics committee, budget office or parliament in general. It seems there's always lots of verbage, lots of flash and lots of finger pointing, but then things quietly slip off the table and become nothing more than a late Friday one line summation in the news. I'll wait for the review to be made public before I comment further.

 

[QV]

Yeah, they're out to lunch. No way they'd prove the requisite intent for a s.419 charge. It's just the chain of command and MPs being big mad because theyir troops make poor life choices.

I can say with fair certainty the MPs (excluding commissioned ones) give zero fucks here. More likely the ever present and often denied inappropriate chain of command influence on police actions played a huge part.

 

[QV]

RCMP officer under review after arresting Rebel News commentator David Menzies for 'assault'​

Top liked comment reads: "So cops can serve coffee to HAMAS, but asking a question is cause for arrest? Oh my..."

Nuances aside, the 5-0 sure aren't endearing themselves to the public lately.

 

[Booter]

if you’ll all recall- Freeland was dogged by a lunatic in grande prairie last year and is subject to a lot of increased security in several cases.

I don’t think this was handled well at all. But there are lots of increasing security issues surrounding the current government. Maybe it’ll be the same with another party- could just be how things are now.

But the interactions are increasing hostile, even if in this particular case it’s just hack journalism.

 

[Remius]

Not the first time Menzies was arrested either while questioning a politician.

 

[brihard]

Not the first time Menzies was arrested either while questioning a politician.

Nor the first time they’ve used the same fundraising address website after said interaction.

The timing of the camera pan makes it tricky, but for him to get from where he was when it panned away to where he was when it panned back, it looks to me like he would have to have been trying to push through and pat the officer. That’s typically not well received by VIP members.

Legally speaking, verbalizing the arrest gives the officer quite a bit more immediately leeway to physically control the situation. An arrest is not a charge and doesn’t necessitate a charge being laid, and the lawfulness of an arrest is not contingent on whether a charge ends up being laid; that comes down to officer’s discretion.

We will probably none of us get much further detail until and unless a lawsuit is actually filed and discovery is made public in a few years. From my ability to quickly google and check CanLII, doesn’t look like there’s anything published yet from the similar lawsuit that was announced by the same organization two years ago after one of their employees was slightly injured at the convoy. Just so people have a sense of timeframes.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Can someone be charged for assaulting a police officer by bumping into them if the police officer didn't identify themselves as a police officer, or, as in this case was basically hiding behind a pillar then stepped out?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Can someone be charged for assaulting a police officer by bumping into them if the police officer didn't identify themselves as a police officer, or, as in this case was basically hiding behind a pillar then stepped out?

It was a an awesome pick...

 

[brihard]

Can someone be charged for assaulting a police officer by bumping into them if the police officer didn't identify themselves as a police officer, or, as in this case was basically hiding behind a pillar then stepped out?

Speaking hypothetically and generally, yes, crown would have to establish that the accused knew the victim was a police officer. The offense is described well at this site:

Assault Peace Officer (Offence) - Criminal Law Notebook

criminalnotebook.ca

Considerations would include the officer’s dress, actions, the context, whether the accused could otherwise be shown to have knowledge that would establish they knew the victim was police, etc.

Simple assault would be a lesser and included offense; if crown didn’t think they could prove knowledge that someone was a police officer, they could still prosecute simple assault.

All of that presupposes that crown believes a prosecution is in the public interest.

 

[Navy_Pete]

if you’ll all recall- Freeland was dogged by a lunatic in grande prairie last year and is subject to a lot of increased security in several cases.

I don’t think this was handled well at all. But there are lots of increasing security issues surrounding the current government. Maybe it’ll be the same with another party- could just be how things are now.

But the interactions are increasing hostile, even if in this particular case it’s just hack journalism.

I think Canadians are a bit too comfortable in lack of consequences for being pricks and invading peoples space. How many countries could you try and push through a security cordon to ask the Deputy PM, Vice Pres or whatever of the country and only get fairly politely arrested (vice shot, beaten, piled on etc)?

Even for celebrity VIPs they'd get pushed back harder than that when some total rando runs up to someone on the street; it's not a press scrum when you ambush someone walking down the sidewalk.

I think they probably would have been better off pushing him away and telling him to back off and then arresting him if he tried to push past them, but same guy will probably whinge about snowflakes while being 10 ply.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think Canadians are a bit too comfortable in lack of consequences for being pricks and invading peoples space. How many countries could you try and push through a security cordon to ask the Deputy PM, Vice Pres or whatever of the country and only get fairly politely arrested (vice shot, beaten, piled on etc)?

Even for celebrity VIPs they'd get pushed back harder than that when some total rando runs up to someone on the street; it's not a press scrum when you ambush someone walking down the sidewalk.

I think they probably would have been better off pushing him away and telling him to back off and then arresting him if he tried to push past them, but same guy will probably whinge about snowflakes while being 10 ply.

Regardless, all the outrage gives great coverage for Rebel News

 

[QV]

I think Canadians are a bit too comfortable in lack of consequences for being pricks and invading peoples space. How many countries could you try and push through a security cordon to ask the Deputy PM, Vice Pres or whatever of the country and only get fairly politely arrested (vice shot, beaten, piled on etc)?

Even for celebrity VIPs they'd get pushed back harder than that when some total rando runs up to someone on the street; it's not a press scrum when you ambush someone walking down the sidewalk.

I think they probably would have been better off pushing him away and telling him to back off and then arresting him if he tried to push past them, but same guy will probably whinge about snowflakes while being 10 ply.

I suggest the revolving door of our justice system is the reason. In Canada one can do 15 B&Es and be walking the streets, so why can't you ask ignorant questions to a minister or have bouncy castle parties on the streets of Ottawa?

 

[lenaitch]

I think Canadians are a bit too comfortable in lack of consequences for being pricks and invading peoples space. How many countries could you try and push through a security cordon to ask the Deputy PM, Vice Pres or whatever of the country and only get fairly politely arrested (vice shot, beaten, piled on etc)?

Even for celebrity VIPs they'd get pushed back harder than that when some total rando runs up to someone on the street; it's not a press scrum when you ambush someone walking down the sidewalk.

I think they probably would have been better off pushing him away and telling him to back off and then arresting him if he tried to push past them, but same guy will probably whinge about snowflakes while being 10 ply.

It's hard to tell from what we see but it doesn't look to me like a secure area so he might not have had to push through anything. The sidewalk area certainly didn't look secure and she doesn't appear to have had a bodyguard. I believe the PM was at that event as well so the members out from were likely his security detail; either an advance team waiting around the entrance for him to show up or he was already there and they were securing the venue. There' sa number of black SUVs parked there.

The reporter looks to me like he could have been working the Deputy PM towards the wall (or she moved towards the wall to draw him in). I've seen cops handle aggressive panhandlers the same way when they were squeezing a pedestrian.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Can someone be charged for assaulting a police officer by bumping into them if the police officer didn't identify themselves as a police officer, or, as in this case was basically hiding behind a pillar then stepped out?

Except the reporter was never charged. The RCMP arrested him, then handed him over to local police who simply took him around the building and released him without incident.

 

[Good2Golf]

How many countries could you try and push through a security cordon to ask the Deputy PM, Vice Pres or whatever of the country and only get fairly politely arrested (vice shot, beaten, piled on etc)?

“…push through a security cordon…”

Were you watching the same video as the rest of us?

Looking for the cordon…


Seems the LE was site-specific, unless I’m missing how CP works

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

“…push through a security cordon…”

Were you watching the same video as the rest of us?

Looking for the cordon…
View attachment 82356

Seems the LE was site-specific, unless I’m missing how CP works

I think the arrest was unwarranted and the RCMP CP Team handled it poorly... thankfully the local Police were a little wiser and simply took Mr. Menzies around the corner and released him... absolving them of any criticism, potential lawsuits and hits to their professional reputation.

Mr. Menzies was standing right in the middle of the details vehicles. They played right in to his trap with their actions

 

[Navy_Pete]

“…push through a security cordon…”

Were you watching the same video as the rest of us?

Looking for the cordon…
View attachment 82356

Seems the LE was site-specific, unless I’m missing how CP works

Yeah, sorry rewatched it, somehow must have skipped the initial bit straight to the 'pick' manuever.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think the arrest was unwarranted and the RCMP CP Team handled it poorly... thankfully the local Police were a little wiser and simply took Mr. Menzies around the corner and released him... absolving them of any criticism, potential lawsuits and hits to their professional reputation.

Mr. Menzies was standing right in the middle of the details vehicles. They played right in to his trap with their actions

If the detail was there to protect Freeland they were doing a pisspoor job of it given that she and her aide had to walk down the sidewalk to reach the detail.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Except the reporter was never charged. The RCMP arrested him, then handed him over to local police who simply took him around the building and released him without incident.

Right. I was curious along the lines of can police arrest people knowing that there weren't any legitimate charges. Arresting someone in bad faith or something along those lines.

The RCMP officer setting Menzies up to bump into him then crying assault seems like a bogus arrest.

 

[brihard]

Exercising discretion not to charge does not mean lawful grounds to charge do not exist, nor does it invalidate an arrest. Grounds to arrest without warrant are found in s.495 of the Criminal Code and offer considerable leeway to a police officer acting in good faith who has reasonable grounds to believe an offence is being or has been committed. Any of us who’ve worked on the road have had many instances where we’ve arrested someone to get a situation under control, then elected not to charge them and released them without process. Establishing a false arrest would require that an officer fails to articulate that these lawful grounds for warrantless arrest exists. The onus is on the officer to establish that they did, but it’s not a particularly high bar, and releasing someone without process doesn’t automatically start some other process.

No doubt there will be a public complaint, which would get investigated. If the complaint investigator finds against the officer then presumably a disciplinary/conduct investigation would start. Personally, from what we see, I wouldn’t be worried about it.