HMCS Saskatoon - drug use trials

[FSTO]

Well disorder and vandalism are signs that someone is bored. Maybe some activities to keep the OD's busy would be good.

We do, its called NEIP. The jury is still out on its effectiveness.

Maybe if the Military Judges would give out more than a 200 dollar fine and suspended sentence people would think twice before they do stupid things;
Maybe if the folks at BMQ were tougher at weeding out the bad ones before they get to the coasts;
Maybe if the folks at CFRG were more discriminating in their selection of recruits; or
Since I have no control of these groups, maybe if the admin process to release a person didn't take 6 to 8 months we could send a more pointed message to the hands (and a few officers)

my .02

 

[Springroll]

NEIP seems to be a wast coast program for now since we are the primary QL3 training base.
Not that NEIP stops anyone from doing, selling or even over dosing on drugs...not sure how effective it is though. I found it quite a waste of time, but I am sure that for some, it is a great prelude to heading to the PFC.

 

[Scott]

Not that NEIP stops anyone from doing, selling or even over dosing on drugs...

Agreed, 100%.

I found it quite a waste of time, but I am sure that for some, it is a great prelude to heading to the PFC.

We're not going down this road again, stick to the topic at hand.

 

[GAP]

Third of ship crew used cocaine, court martial told
Updated Tue. Aug. 14 2007 8:52 AM ET CTV.ca News Staff
Article Link

The Canadian Navy has decided it will review its drug-testing process after a military court heard that as much as one-third of the crew on a Pacific-based Canadian ship were regularly using cocaine, according to a report.

In total, three crewmembers aboard the HMCS Saskatoon have been found guilty of trafficking cocaine and a fourth charged with the same offence.

Jason Ennis, 24, was one of four crew members of HMCS Saskatoon charged after the military launched an undercover sting operation targeting the ship.

Ennis, who was convicted last week, told the court between 10 and 12 members of the 31-member crew used cocaine frequently during the time of the investigation, which took place in January, 2006. However, he denied using the drug on the ship himself.

Earlier this year, two sailors were convicted of drug trafficking charges. Sonya Robert, 27, pleaded guilty to selling half a gram of cocaine to a military undercover drug officer. Brenda Murley, 28, pleaded guilty to the same charge and both were fined $500. A military court convicted Ennis last week of one count of trafficking cocaine and ordered him to pay a $2,000 fine.
More on link

Mods: Thanks for merging this into the proper thread...I didn't see it when I posted

 

[3rd Herd]

Five charged after RCMP nab drug boat in Ucluelet
Former Victoria fisherman among five charged with importing drugs-Times Colonist (Victoria) 2006
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/news/story.html?id=5c601e65-9b0f-4689-aba2-e02c2c624bd9&k=77029


"The vessel will be towed to CFB Esquimalt where special equipment will be used to check for drugs, Nadeau said.

"We're dealing with some enclosed space inside the ship. It's under guard right now ... where the search is going to be completed. The areas we're looking at are sealed with that expanding foam. There's also a certain amount of fish on board."

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Maybe they can start focusing on the stuff going on in the shacks for a bit....
Might help to set a better example by starting to enforce the CF's laws right from the moment they step foot into the shacks.

Agreed....what they need to do is stop having the new OS police themselves....its not working. Use someone that has nothing to gain and have no qualms in turning the screws.

 

[3rd Herd]

Use someone that has nothing to gain and have no qualms in turning the screws.

That indeed is a rare creature given the military ethos/culture of "silence". I surmise in the haste to move people in and out of the blocks onto the local economy this is one of the results. The "CFL" types who used to compete for the record of longest continuous period of living in the shacks seem to have faded away with time.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Apologies in advance; I’m so old and have been retired for so long that my questions may seem downright naïve, but:

Where the hell were the officers?  They are charged with leading and with keeping the people in their ships and units in good order and discipline.  Were I the four striper in Esquimalt I can guarantee that my pencil would be poised over the left hand (low score) column on the officers’ PERs; and

Where the hell were the petty officers?  I understand that Cox’n was a big (HUGE) part of the problem but surely, absent any effective leadership from the commissioned ranks, there was one petty officer willing to do the right thing; and

Why should the most junior ranks have to police themselves?  That’s why we have master seamen/master corporals.  The most important leadership rank has always been the first one – the one closest to the most junior people.  There’s a reason master-jacks live with, mess with the junior ranks – they are the first level leaders and they are part and parcel of the team.

I understand that the military has changed over the past half century but maybe it needs to change back a bit.

 

[geo]

And Edward, just imagine, they promoted the outgoing CO
Incredible!, F?&*?ng incredible!

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Well disorder and vandalism are signs that someone is bored. Maybe some activities to keep the OD's busy would be good.

No they are signs of a COC that is not working. We don't have to entertain people because, God forbid, they might be bored. I get bored at home too but I don't go down to the corner and vandalise the mailbox or the corner store. the others who have commented on here are absolutely right we have abrogated responsibility to keep proper order and discipline by shaving down duty watches (to keep people who whined about the frequency of duty) to a bare minimum. Most of the damage in quarters happens on weekends when people come home stewed to the gills and do stupid things.

Having said all, that there are very few people who live on board an MCDV if any...they would all live in Nellie's Block or Bernier Block (I think that's the name of the long term block in Esquimalt) or on the economy...their activities after working hours when the ship is alongside are not monitored by the ship's COC. Aboard the ship's manned by the Reg Force most of the crew live on the economy. Because the drug use was so wide spread on this ship it appears that this activity was being imported into the workplace.....especially seeing as the senior NCM was into it too.

For the old timers, it was a lot different when most of our troops lived in barracks or on board....those days are long gone and today's problems are not unsolvable but it's not always possible to enforce things the old way due to the fact that we don't see folks for as much time in the course of a day. A lot of this stuff surfaces when the ship or the unit deploys and it's not possible for people to hide problems anymore.

 

[navymich]

Having said all, that there are very few people who live on board an MCDV if any...they would all live in Nellie's Block or Bernier Block (I think that's the name of the long term block in Esquimalt) or on the economy...

The crew remains onboard only while in foreign ports.  While alongside home port, only the duty watch is allowed onboard after secure.  The barracks there are Nelles and Bernay's Block.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

The crew remains onboard only while in foreign ports.  While alongside home port, only the duty watch is allowed onboard after secure.  The barracks there are Nelles and Bernay's Block.

I've been in Slackers too long....how could I forget how to spell those names??? I spent enough sleepless nights while on duty talking to those who lived there, who were "feeling blue."

 

[navymich]

Apologies in advance; I’m so old and have been retired for so long that my questions may seem downright naïve, but:

Where the hell were the officers?  They are charged with leading and with keeping the people in their ships and units in good order and discipline.  Were I the four striper in Esquimalt I can guarantee that my pencil would be poised over the left hand (low score) column on the officers’ PERs; and

Where the hell were the petty officers?  I understand that Cox’n was a big (HUGE) part of the problem but surely, absent any effective leadership from the commissioned ranks, there was one petty officer willing to do the right thing; and

Why should the most junior ranks have to police themselves?  That’s why we have master seamen/master corporals.  The most important leadership rank has always been the first one – the one closest to the most junior people.  There’s a reason master-jacks live with, mess with the junior ranks – they are the first level leaders and they are part and parcel of the team.

I understand that the military has changed over the past half century but maybe it needs to change back a bit.

Just to give a bit of background for people who are not aware as to the crew on an MCDV.  (note: this is not to provide excuses, suggestions or anything of that sort regarding the topic of this thread, just for background information)

The typical crew of an MCDV, with all positions filled by the recommended ranks:

Officers (including CO) - 2xLCdr, 3xSLt/Lt(N)
C&PO's (including coxn) - 1xCPO2, 1xCPO2/PO1, 6xPO2
Jr Ranks - approx.  6-8xMS.  The remainder of bunk space is 24-26  personnel (if the ship has an accomodations pod, if not subtract 6 pers) which would be filled with mostly LS, sometimes OS/AB.

 

[geo]

airmich,
While the crew of an MCDV is small, the Saskatoon is part of the West Coast fleet.  Plenty of Senior, intermediate and junior leaders coming and going all the time.  If this particular ship was such a disaster ready to happen, someone somewhere had to have noticed something.  Someone somewhere had to but didn't take action.

 

[navymich]

Geo, multiply the crew that I described times 5, and that is who would be around the MCDV jetty (the 6th ship is manned with a "custodial crew" of approximately 6-8 personnel).  This doesn't include anybody visiting from support and supply, or HQ.  As mentioned in my post, I wasn't insinuating or suggesting anything, simply giving a background for those that might be interested but not knowledgeable about the crew or ship. 

 

[Springroll]

Agreed....what they need to do is stop having the new OS police themselves....its not working. Use someone that has nothing to gain and have no qualms in turning the screws.

This is EXACTLY what needs to be done!

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

This is EXACTLY what needs to be done!

That would mean increasing Duty Watch and having people around after hours and on weekends...I can hear the whining already!

 

[navymich]

That would mean increasing Duty Watch and having people around after hours and on weekends...I can hear the whining already!

My first summer that I was in Esquimalt (1992), the duty watch was huge.  When we fell in at the beginning of the night, we were in 3 ranks and filled a large portion of the front lobby area.  There were OS/AB posted in each corner on each floor throughout the night.  The front desk was always manned by at least 2 people, and the Duty PO and Duty O remained on the premises.  I know it went down to bare manning for awhile. 

When I was last at Nelles this past spring, I noticed there appeared to be more people around, especially at the front desk, but I don't know how many there are on each watch now.  I had the (un?) lucky fortune to be bunked at Nelles for a few days while I was there recently.  Quite the change from the first summer I was there, and not just the duty watch.  Between lack of respect for shift workers, noise, cleanliness and more.  I'm sure being on the outside looking in that we all have suggestions for improvement.  It would be interesting though to get the view from someone actually involved (accomodations staff, senior duty watch personnel etc) as to what the regulations are, and what is being done to ensure enforcement of them.

 

[kincanucks]

Send the Army in!!!

 

[3rd Herd]

My first summer that I was in Esquimalt (1992), the duty watch was huge.  When we fell in at the beginning of the night, we were in 3 ranks and filled a large portion of the front lobby area.  There were OS/AB posted in each corner on each floor throughout the night.  The front desk was always manned by at least 2 people, and the Duty PO and Duty O remained on the premises. 

You can go back a further 10-15 years with this airmich. We used to have to occasionally "visit" when doing Bn. duty driver and such. As to bring in the army, no, but the Snr Nco's did do regular walks through our blocks, the same as "morning strolls through the lines on exercises. On the official side we had regular weekly /semi weekly room inspections. Beginning with the usual round of pre-inspections by M/CPLs the Sgts, then... In part to ensure damage was held in check and in part to ensure the time honored "cleanliness next to holiness." There are a few tales floating around about personal trying to buy a particular shade of paint late on Sunday afternoons( for you young uns, no Sunday shopping back then). And to a certain extent there was a level of pride in making the "sparten" accommodations more like home. "Hell hath no fury" like returning to shacks after summer ex to find the "conditions' left by some of the short term summer guests.