IAP in Kingston

[DChamberlain-NAVY]

Both you, benny88, and Intelligent Design  make some very good points.

I can definitively see how someone with their heart set on a certain trade can hesitate now that they won't know for sure what MOC they'll get until 2nd year. And how this would probably discourage some potential cadets from taking a more secure option elsewhere. As well as OCdts doing ROTP at a civi u. not getting the same exposure to the MOCs as RMC cadets.

I also understand that we're not necessarily "locked in" to our assigned Operational Grouping and Element. I, for example, was given Sea OPS (I'm currently a Naval Reservist so I wonder if this had anything to do with this selection and if they decided to "keep" me as Navy because thats my current element) but this wasn't my 1st choice, in fact this was my 3rd choice. Nevertheless if I perform well at school and demonstrate myself to be suitable for my 1st choice (INT), then I can get my 1st choice which is Land Support... and just change my DEUs. Anyone else heard of this? As in not being locked in to your occupational grouping?

As for IAP, everyone seems to have a different idea on what it'll be. The only thing that I'm sure of is that we're not going to St. Jean and the recruiting center told me that I have no training before I must report to RMC on 03-AUG-08.

I assume the first bit of authentic actionable-intelligence (can you tell I want the INT MOC? ;D) will be when we receive our Joining instructions/ 'welcome package' in the mail. Has anyone received theirs yet? The Recruiting center told me they'd be sending them out "soon" and that was 3 weeks ago.

 

[benny88]

Hey Chamberlain,

  I for sure didn't mean to imply that it's not possible to get your first pick and that you don't have a shot at INT O, best of luck! We can debate all we want about the merits of the different recruiting processes but in the end it's for people with much higher salaries to decide!

cheekymonkey,

  IAP AFTER hours at RMC? That would be wild, I don't think that could work during FYOP, so I guess it would be after? Is it even feasible to run that during the year? From what I hear the schedule is already fairly full. I understand that it's just heresay and I'm not trying to rip you for just floating something that you heard, but I'm not sure that that's possible. Hopefully someone much more knowledgeable about RMC affairs can help you out.
  This isn't unprecedented though, other years have had IAP deferred and have had some sort of training before RMC so you don't look like a total plug during your arch parade. Again, I'm not an RMC OCdt, but fear not, you'll be taken care of.

 

[Lumber]

I cannot see IAP "after hours" being even remotely conceivable. Even as a Business Admin student, I would not have the time to learn the kind of things I learned on IAP in an 'afterhours' RMC-IAP program.

Another thing is for us Civvi U people, we don't get that same kind of exposure to the different trades during university,

...The system might be good for RMC...

OK want to ask a question that may at first seem condescending but it's not!  It's a serious question and I will follow up on your answer; I'd just like to know your response before I put my input in on this quote. Anyways: What type of education (i.e. system) do you think we have at RMC that educates us about the different trades?

 

[DChamberlain-NAVY]

Hahaha, very true Benny88... its a matter for people with much higher salaries and a few more bars 

As for IAP after hours. I also think this wouldn't be feasible. IAP is an intensive multi-week course (8/12 week?? I'm not sure) so I can't see how it would be done after hours (in addition to a full day's schedule).

NOW....

To throw another ratchet into the cogwheels, I just remembered yet another version of possible events, this time from a professor at RMC's language dept. He played it safe and told me that RMC will get in touch with me with all the details but he did mention that we would receive our Triple D (Dress, Drill, Deportment) training "au fur et a mesure" (french prof ) so basically alongside our classes. So cheeky_monkey's source may be right to the extent that our IAP training will run through the year with our classes but I think it would have to be incorporated into the day schedule at RMC as opposed to after-hours.

Regarding your question Lumber, here's my crack at it ... absolutely nothing. I don't think that RMC has any concrete system that educates us about trades. RMC does in fact have an "Element Day" of sorts where are the Naval Cadets go to HMCS CATARAQUI, the Air Force to 1 Wing (I assume), and the Army up the hill. During this day they get some exposure to their trades, BUT they already have trades assigned, so I don't know how that'll work out this year. But I'm pretty certain that all ROTP students attend those.

What I think what RMC has that Civi U doesn't (I'm in no way implying one is better than the other!!) in regards to trade exposure is personal experience from Profs, Officers, and Senior Cadets. As for a set education system for MOCs, I don't think they had it previously but this year is a whole new ball game.

 

[jepremo]

They're not saying a whole lot to us yet about what's going to happen, most likely because they're finalising details for the summer.

What we do know, however, is that first years will not have a trade assigned in their first year -- they will be assigned an element so that they can be given uniforms and such for the days we have elemental affiliation (at least twice a week right now we wear elemental work dress -- naval combats for me, combats or flight suits for the air force, and combats for the army).. in order to do that, the first years need an element assigned to them.

From what we're told, first years will rank their choices and it will go to a board who decides based on merit (physical fitness scores, academic scores, etc.) what trade you're given in your second year.

As for IAP in Kingston -- we know that's for sure.  When I went through IAP, it was 9 weeks long (I'm in my fourth year, graduating in May) and they just lengthened it a couple years back to 13 weeks.  That said, the first four weeks is fairly intensive and teaches you all your basic military skills, and the rest of the course is field and leadership doctrine that can be taught in a classroom environment.

This is not official by any means, but my suspicion is that they will take the bare basics (drill, deportment, care for your uniforms, basic military law, first aid, how to write a memo, etc.) and teach that in August, and leave the fieldcraft, etc. for BOTP (second half of basic officer training, which is in St-Jean, QC -- when I did that it was only 5 weeks long, I can see them lengthening that to make up for what you missed).

This year I was a ranking cadet at the college and so my OJT (on the job training) was to run a sort of basic training for those in St-Jean at the Preparatory Year, and that's exactly what we did -- teach the basics to make them functional members of the CF, and saved the "army" material for the next course they took... if you're an OCdt at the college you don't need to know the steps of battle procedure on a daily basis, but you do need to know how to not look like a bag, rank structure, that sort of stuff.

Just my two cents, however.

 

[DChamberlain-NAVY]

jepremo, it may have been just your two cents as you said... but it is greatly appreciated. I, for my part, have no experience with RMC (and only a fraction more as an ncm) so its great to get a second (or 3rd, 4th ) opinion from someone deep in the trenches in 4th yr. RMC. Thanks!

 

[dwalter]

OK want to ask a question that may at first seem condescending but it's not!  It's a serious question and I will follow up on your answer; I'd just like to know your response before I put my input in on this quote. Anyways: What type of education (i.e. system) do you think we have at RMC that educates us about the different trades?

Chamberlain essentially said it in his next post. I don't mean to say that RMC will actually be giving everyone a sophisticated lesson on each trade, but I do mean that RMC cadets will have a bit more exposure to the military environment which can as a result lead to finding out about certain trades and perhaps make an O/Cdt. say "Hey, that would be really cool."

I can only go off my experience at Civvi U so far, that's just why I posed the idea to my RMC colleagues. If I was wrong in my thinking, that's fine, now I know.

 

[DChamberlain-NAVY]

Exactly. My girlfriend's father went through Royal Roads/RMC back in the 80's and said that it used be the same as next year. So they're in fact bringing back an older system (trade assigned 2nd year). He's an armoured officer (insists on being called a cavalry officer ;D) and he said how he went in to RMC because he couldn't afford Civi U and had no idea what he wanted to do in the CF. After talking to some armoured guys and seeing the MBTs during a weekend EX, he thought "hey! this is really cool!" and presto!

So to reiterate what others have said. This new system works great for people not all to concerned with their final trade designation. But for people with their hearts set on a very specific trade, its a bit of a gamble.

 

[Lumber]

But for people with their hearts set on a very specific trade, its a bit of a gamble.

Exactly. For me, I wasn't set out on one trade. I would have take MARS, Cavalry  ;D, Intel and Pilot (if my eye didn't disqualify me). I would also have accepted Law Officer but it's not offered.
However, had I gone through first year (and hated it as much as I did) and then found out I was going to be LogO or AEC, I'd have VR'd. (not to out down those trades, but it's simply just not what I want to do!)

 

[Edward Campbell]

Many, many years decades ago the system went something like this:

• Summer between high school graduation and 1st year university: Phase 1 (common) – essentially the 20+ week army recruit syllabus plus some additional stuff jammed into 10 weeks – a must pass, no exceptions;

• 1st couple of/few weeks in RMC: Intro to college – more dill, etc followed by the recruit obstacle course;

    (ROTP (Civie U) and COTC cadets get accustomed to long hair, low shoes and girls!)

• Summer between 1st and 2nd years: The ROTP Tour – cadets (RMC and Civie U) visit a broad selection of RCN, CA and RCAF bases, garrisons and stations to learn about various officer classifications/occupations so that they can request assignment during second year;

• Summer between 2nd and 3rd years: 2nd Phase – special to service/corps/branch training;

• Summer between 3rd and 4th years: 3rd Phase – special to service/corps/branch training;

• Summer after graduation:  YOTC (Young Officers’ Tactics Course) for Army followed by 4th Phase training followed, for some branches/corps, by additional courses.

Obviously: no second language training and first posting in the fleet/field is very much an apprenticeship but the system seemed to work.

Factoid: The popularity of Signals with RMC cadets had little to do with the ROTP tour and was related, mostly, I’m told (I never went to the charm school) to the fact that 2nd year cadets were allowed out and, therefore, met girls – who lived in Kingston, where the Signals School was ...

 

[dwalter]

Exactly. For me, I wasn't set out on one trade. I would have take MARS, Cavalry  ;D, Intel and Pilot (if my eye didn't disqualify me). I would also have accepted Law Officer but it's not offered.
However, had I gone through first year (and hated it as much as I did) and then found out I was going to be LogO or AEC, I'd have VR'd. (not to out down those trades, but it's simply just not what I want to do!)

Well I only qualify for 3 officer trades due to my eyes and my degree that I'm working on, so that means I have somewhat of an idea of what I'm getting into. Then the other day when I was talking with the great recruiting staff I learned about the MLTP (Military Legal Training Program) for officers currently serving. I had decided early on that if I wasn't accepted for ROTP I would finish my degree, and do law school, then apply DEO as a legal officer. Now I heard about this program, which lets you get law school subsidized as long as you are already in. The only thing is you have to finish your initial contract, which in my case will be 13 years... Which is a long time to go without school At the same time, it represents a really interesting career option. I'm not as worried about it anymore. I'll just go with the flow, and see where it takes me.

 

[breezie]

For me, I think even though it would be great to know your trade as soon as you go into RMC, I actually think the "wait until you've finished your first year" system has its plusses. Not only do you know by then if you are cut out for the military, and would enjoy the trades you picked, I see it as a chance to give it all you've got, and prove to the powers that be that you deserve and are capable of performing your first choice really well. I'm just considering it a really really long job interview! If you want your first choice bad enough, you'll do whatever it takes to make sure that you'll get it. Of course, there may be factors out of your control that still prevent you from getting your first choice, but as long as you give it your best, that's all you can do. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth.

 

[DChamberlain-NAVY]

Thats a good way to look at it Breezie. I mean for all the negative points regarding the new system there are some good points too. Even though I know exactly  what I want to do, I do think that the "really, really long interview" is a good thing. Its sometimes difficult to show your best 'military qualities' in the civi world so being given a year to demonstrate what you can do in a military setting will probably provide some cadets a much better chance at their preferred trade.

 

[tabernac]

No worriers b88, just letting people know what I've heard.

And what is this "really, really long interview" everyone keeps talking about?

 

[DChamberlain-NAVY]

Well the "really, really long interview" I am referring to is our First Year in general. Instead of having a multi-hour interview when we applied, our first year can be considered as an interview as our performance will be critical in getting our trade choice.

We also do have a real interview at the end of first year, an hour or so I think, where we get to sell ourself and use our first year accomplishments to try and get our trade choice.

 

[Yasha]

I was just told that July 30th is enrollment date, and August will be spent at RMC.

 

[Calgone]

Here in Calgary, I was told that on July 26th is when I'll be sworn in and August 2nd is when I fly out to Kingston.

 

[Yasha]

Well, we all find out pretty soon when we recieve our enrollment packages.  ;D

 

[nizfiz]

am i the only person who's been told they're going to st.jean for 1st year and to report for duty on august 3rd for indoc at st.jean? and no, it's not the prep year. it's the first of a 4 year BA.  I don't mind the idea, it's just I haven't heard about it from anyone else.  I'm half french, I wonder if that has anything to do with it.  Also, they're talking about gearing up st.jean into a full scale military college in the next few years.

 

[Big Foot]

am i the only person who's been told they're going to st.jean for 1st year and to report for duty on august 3rd for indoc at st.jean? and no, it's not the prep year. it's the first of a 4 year BA.  I don't mind the idea, it's just I haven't heard about it from anyone else.  I'm half french, I wonder if that has anything to do with it.  Also, they're talking about gearing up st.jean into a full scale military college in the next few years.

CMR will be reopening as a military college effective June 2008, hence why you are being sent there as a First Year cadet. I am not entirely sure on details, however this has been in the works for some time now.