Infantry Vehicles

[ueo]

Sabot battle bmp2

Nah, that'd be a through a nd through. HESH'l give you an almighty headache.

And this is what is wrong with the current military procurement system, especially in Canada but also in the UK and the US

Instead of waiting for the perfect answer the civilian world has been delivering good enuff and making it better.

11 Military modifications of a workable civilian pattern vehicle in 12 years
81 generations of the same civilian pattern vehicle in 18 years.

POLARIS SportsmanModels/Series Timeline, Specifications & Photos

Home > Moto > POLARIS > Sportsman

Generations: 81

First production year: 2005

Updated: 8 March 2023

The MRZR Alpha is Polaris' 11th military vehicle produced in 12 years

2005​	Sportsman	Civilian
2007​	RZR	Civilian
2009​	Sportsman 850	Civilian
2010​	RZR 800	US Army SOTF
2011​	MV850	US Forces
2012​	MRZR	Introduced
2013​	MRZR 2	USSOCOM
2013​	MRZR 4	USSOCOM
2014​	DAGOR	USSOCOM
2016​	MRZR D2	USMC - UTV
2016​	MRZR D4	USMC - UTV
2021​	MRZR Alpha	USSOCOM, US Abn - LTATV
2023​	MRZR Alpha	USMC - ULTV

Don't ever let real life impinge on military 100% requirements.

 

[markppcli]

Nah, that'd be a through a nd through. HESH'l give you an almighty headache.

Don't ever let real life impinge on military 100% requirements.

yes we’ll through the armour and ideally the passangers. I was unaware they made HESH in IFV calibre?

 

[ueo]

yes we’ll through the armour and ideally the passangers. I was unaware they made HESH in IFV calibre?

Sorry, me neither. Answer based on "old" tech.

 

[Kirkhill]

Apparently those big Aussies can squeeze into those Korean IFVs after all.
129 vehicles with delivery two years early (2027) for 5-7 BAUD.
Concurrent with receipt of HIMARS and new landing craft
Australia has already ordered 30 K9s (Aussie Huntsman) and 15 Ammo Supply Vehicles.

Hanwha defeats Rheinmetall for $5-7 billion Aussie infantry fighting vehicle deal - Breaking Defense

The contract award is a major win for Hanwha — but is also much smaller than originally envisioned.

breakingdefense.com

https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/news/2023-07-04/self-propelled-howitzer-game-changer

 

[KevinB]

@Kirkhill keep in mind the Redback they are talking about was purposely designed for Australia...

 

[KevinB]

@Kirkhill keep in mind the Redback they are talking about was purposely designed for Australia...

They specifically mention it in the article, as well as how it’s not really suited for the Korean winter climate.

 

[McG]

It worked out, the SEV could be dropped and they could do the job. Better to get them out into the field than to have them sitting back in garrison.

A mission module that gets dropped on the ground while its truck leaves for other tasks may be great for the Corps admin area or for an anti-Taliban brigade. Otherwise, it’s just waiting to become a gift to the enemy.

 

[Kirkhill]

Rosomak Long​

By the end of 2023, the Polish government have to sign a contract for the supply of 250 to 400 Rosomak to the armed forces in an updated L (long) extended version. This modification has a 60 cm longer body compared to the basic version of the vehicle, which has a length of 7.8 meters. Thus, the length of the body of the new vehicle will reach 8.4 meters.

This modernization increases the floatability of the armored vehicle and will allow the installation of more powerful weapons. It is planned that most Rosomak Long will be equipped with ZSSW-30 RWS.

Rosomak: modern Polish APC in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Rosomak: modern Polish APC in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine | Honest news about the army, war and defense.

mil.in.ua

Poland delivered all 200 Rosomak armored personnel carriers to Ukraine, — ORYX.Armored personnel carriers will be able to ensure the delivery of military to the front line, as well as the protection of infantry in the event of a breakthrough of the defense lines.

Long and detailed article describing multiple variants, organizations and assigned units.

 

[KevinB]

Poland has a new HIFV coming.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1691030889671667712?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

 

[KevinB]

https://x.com/tendar/status/1691033312079618048?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

 

[KevinB]

https://x.com/anno1540/status/1690984823022620672?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

 

[Kirkhill]

Poland has a new HIFV coming.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1691030889671667712?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

And some other stuff.

Poland signs deals for light recon vehicles, heavy infantry combat vehicles and APCs - Breaking Defense

Poland signed a roughly $290 million deal for 400 Lekki Pojazd Rozpoznawczy Light Reconnaissance Vehicles, as well as two framework agreements to develop new ground vehicles for the future.

breakingdefense.com

The first of today’s three contracts, signed by the consortium of PGZ and Rosomak, covers the supply of approximately 400 LPRs in a 4×4 chassis. The approximately PLN 1.2 billion ($290 million) contract comes with a delivery period between 2024 and 2030.

The LPR is a polonization of the Korean family of KIA KLTV vehicles, continuing the growing military relationship between South Korea and Poland.

Raycolt KLTV - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The vehicle is equipped with armor providing ballistic protection at level I of NATO standard STANAG 4569, and it is powered by a 225 HP diesel engine. It also has a central tire inflation system and a runflat system for driving after a puncture of tires.

The LPR will be equipped with a turntable on the roof enabling the installation of a 7.62mm or 12.7mm machine gun, or a 40mm grenade launcher. The permissible weight of the LPR is approx. 5.7 tons, helping to fill the gap between light vehicles and heavier systems.

Kind of feels like a Roshel Senator or an armoured Milverado

And...

New Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier:​

to replace this one.



From the text it sounds less like an issue of the combat worthiness of the Rosomak and more a commercial dispute over not being able to sell them overseas.

 

[McG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692864806645064189

ACSV & LAV 6 fit between the two vehicles pictured here, with ACSV being larger that LAV 6.

I wonder how much the interchangeable mission modules contribute to bulk of Boxer.

 

[Kirkhill]

I know we can move anything on wheels but when do we stop? When does it become impractical?

 

[childs56]

View attachment 79532

I know we can move anything on wheels but when do we stop? When does it become impractical?

For those stuck in a track only world wheels suck.
For those who work various fields and base their decisions on multi use, wheels can makes sense. Especially when taking one or two wheels out doe not make you immobile. If you loose a track your out until you fix it. (Unless you run a track over wheel configuration)
You can adapt wheels to your situation as long as one has logistics. Wider wheels for flotation, narrow for saving the environment and less wear and tear on equipment, tire chains when you just say screw it. Tracks are not great on every terrain either but they work.

I would like to know why Poland would go with a mixed fleet of wheel and tracked? If tracked rules the world or at least eastern Europe then why wheels?

 

[Kirkhill]

For those stuck in a track only world wheels suck.
For those who work various fields and base their decisions on multi use, wheels can makes sense. Especially when taking one or two wheels out doe not make you immobile. If you loose a track your out until you fix it. (Unless you run a track over wheel configuration)
You can adapt wheels to your situation as long as one has logistics. Wider wheels for flotation, narrow for saving the environment and less wear and tear on equipment, tire chains when you just say screw it. Tracks are not great on every terrain either but they work.

I would like to know why Poland would go with a mixed fleet of wheel and tracked? If tracked rules the world or at least eastern Europe then why wheels?

That issue becomes more contentious with electric wheels where the motor is mounted in the wheel ....

Direct-drive in-wheel motors - Elaphe

in-wheel.com

2 generators, a battery and multiple motors.

To be honest though it seems that I have done it again. I was actually wondering about weight and when it becomes impractical to increase the weight further. I sense that we are peaking given that we seem to be rolling back from 60 tonne tanks carrying 70 tonnes with mods to newer tanks and HIFVs dropping back to the 50 tonne range.

 

[McG]

That issue becomes more contentious with electric wheels where the motor is mounted in the wheel ....

Direct-drive in-wheel motors - Elaphe

in-wheel.com

2 generators, a battery and multiple motors.

This is probably the way all wheeled A Veh need to go. With in-wheel motors, you get lower center of gravity and reduced sprung weight. But, those wheels must function when fully submerged for fording.

 

[KevinB]

For those stuck in a track only world wheels suck.
For those who work various fields and base their decisions on multi use, wheels can makes sense. Especially when taking one or two wheels out doe not make you immobile.

Wheels even run flats don’t like shrapnel.
8 flats is a total M kill.
I don’t think wheels suck, they like tracks have their pro’s and con’s.

If you loose a track you’re out until you fix it. (Unless you run a track over wheel configuration)
You can adapt wheels to your situation as long as one has logistics. Wider wheels for flotation, narrow for saving the environment and less wear and tear on equipment, tire chains when you just say screw it. Tracks are not great on every terrain either but they work.

Heavy Armor generally uses tracks as it is a way to reduce the ground pressure, and while yes you can make super big wide tall wheels, they don’t lend themselves to road work.

The USMC used to have the track kits on several of their Hummer at MWTC

It gave them (when they worked) great over snow mobility when they didn’t need a BV.
They generated 1/2 of the ground pressure as the wheeled units.

I would like to know why Poland would go with a mixed fleet of wheel and tracked? If tracked rules the world or at least eastern Europe then why wheels?

The same reason other Militaries do it.

Heavy forces go tracked. The Medium and Light Motorized go wheeled.

Wheels can do roads so much better than tracks (unless the road is all fubar from combat). But it allows for a mixed force with a multiple protective and mobility options

 

[KevinB]

https://x.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1692970554444144919?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

 

[markppcli]

https://x.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1692970554444144919?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

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