Intelligence Officer / Operator

[meni0n]

I know it can be done, I was referring to George's post about knowing ORBATs, combat experience and cutting the QL5As on the assumption that all individuals getting the OT are combat arms.

 

[George Wallace]

I know it can be done, I was referring to George's post about knowing ORBATs, combat experience and cutting the QL5As on the assumption that all individuals getting the OT are combat arms.

So?  They still bring a lot of "Corporate Knowledge", no matter what Trade.  They understand how the CF and other Nations militaries work.  They still have knowledge of Naval ORBATs.  They also don't usually go "Army", so that is a misleading statement, as they would/could take their "Naval" experience into the SEA side of the Branch.  Same goes for AIR.  Not everything in INT is Army.  So anyone with previous "Corporate Knowledge" gained from prior Service would require less 'indoctrination' than a person hired straight off the street.

Greymatters has pointed out that some exceptional people have come in off the street, but they have usually had the required skill sets developed over time in 'the profession' (in other agencies) or in a 'corporate environment' as a professional; not as a freshly graduated university student. 

 

[Greymatters]

I know it can be done, I was referring to George's post about knowing ORBATs, combat experience and cutting the QL5As on the assumption that all individuals getting the OT are combat arms.

Ive looked it over again, but I dont see the reference or the inference that all individuals getting the OT are combat arms... but then I dont agree with everything in George's comment.  Some basics you have to include to ensure all trade candidates have the same basic skill level, unless you move it from the training aspect to the selection aspect, then it would work.  

 

[Franko]

I know it can be done, I was referring to George's post about knowing ORBATs, combat experience and cutting the QL5As on the assumption that all individuals getting the OT are combat arms.

Anyone can OT to the Int trade but combat arm troops are in high demand by the Army Int environment itself. It would be the same for every other element I would think.

Regards

 

[meni0n]

But there is a chance that they might be told they will have to switch uniforms or they've requested it by personal choice. I am all for the INT trade being OT only.

Recce, indeed they are but that doesn't guarantee that someone from a non combat arms trade not get his OT into the army element.

 

[George Wallace]

But there is a chance that they might be told they will have to switch uniforms or they've requested it by personal choice. I am all for the INT trade being OT only.

You are correct.  Right now the Air side is taking in the majority of OT, VOT, CT and Re-enrollees.

 

[Franko]

Recce, indeed they are but that doesn't guarantee that someone from a non combat arms trade not get his OT into the army element.

There are no guarantees IRT an OT.     

Regards

 

[lou-reed]

Another point to consider is that, due to manning shortfalls, many INT positions are being filled by Air and Navy INT Os and INT Ops.  The ASIC is full of air and navy personnel - and they quickly learn about the army way of things.  Let's not forget that the ASIC also has civilians doing analysis - these civilians, many have no military experience other than being paid by DND.  From my experiences, absolutely excellent people to work with and have excellent knowlegde of how the military works.  I do not see what the difference is from a civilian or a DEO?

Besides, I do not recall ever starting any of my briefings with my resume.  INT is personality based - the commander will either be receptive to what you tell him/her or will not. 

Again, it comes down to keeping an open mind.  I stand by my earlier post of giving DEO a try.   

 

[Greymatters]

INT is personality based - the commander will either be receptive to what you tell him/her or will not.  

Are you refering to the personality of the briefer, or the commander, or both?

 

[simonsimon]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for the information and opinions. I appreciate the discussion about the value of DEO candidates too. Although it seems most are skeptical, I am still intent on exploring this possibility, and have more questions regarding the job in general and the recruitment process. I've been to the CFRC and called the local Int Coy (although they don't seem to pick up the phone), but am interested in sounding out the forum for perhaps better-informed opinions

I'm currently learning Pashto in the hope of doing a DEO, starting BOTC this Fall, completing CAP and BIOC by the end of 2009, and deploying to Afghanistan in 2010. I want to know if this is realistic.

1. Is it possible to complete BOTC, CAP and BIOC within a year? Do IntO even have to do CAP? And how often is the BIOC offered in the year? Once you've finished those, is it possible to start training for deployment immediately - and how long does this last? 6 months like for infantry?

2. How does selection for deployment work? Do you apply for it? Are you assigned according to relevant skills?

3. If you know the local language on a deployment, what kind of different work could you be expected to do? Would you ever be going off base and talking to locals, or more translating enemy documents on-base?

4. Do any Int O work on PRTs?

5. When you're not on deployment and are working at your local Company, what kind of work are you doing exactly? Are you working with deployed forces?

Thanks again for all the help, it's been very useful. Cheers,

 

[medaid]

I'm currently learning Pashto in the hope of doing a DEO, starting BOTC this Fall, completing CAP and BIOC by the end of 2009, and deploying to Afghanistan in 2010. I want to know if this is realistic.

No.

1. Is it possible to complete BOTC, CAP and BIOC within a year? Do IntO even have to do CAP? And how often is the BIOC offered in the year? Once you've finished those, is it possible to start training for deployment immediately - and how long does this last? 6 months like for infantry?

That depends. Are you attempting to apply to RegF or PRes? Is it possible? No. Why? Because you are assuming that you pass every single one of your courses without fail, which may happen but may not. You are also assuming that courses are back to back to back, which they're not. If you are PRes, which by the latter questions you are, the likelihood of you doing everything in one go is at the mercy of whether or not you've missed the que for certain courses. IntOs do CAP in the RegF without question of element. Navy IntOs in the PRes do not, but they do in the Army. BIOC is element dependent, and depending on when you finish your course, you may have missed the opportunity to join a BG.

2. How does selection for deployment work? Do you apply for it? Are you assigned according to relevant skills?

Depends.

3. If you know the local language on a deployment, what kind of different work could you be expected to do? Would you ever be going off base and talking to locals, or more translating enemy documents on-base?

Can't say.

4. Do any Int O work on PRTs?

Can't say.

5. When you're not on deployment and are working at your local Company, what kind of work are you doing exactly? Are you working with deployed forces?

Things that you're trained to do in support of your local CBG and units.

 

[George Wallace]

It really amuses me when I see this type of post on the internet.  Does the person making the post really have any idea of what they are doing, or what the job is that they are talking about.  In this case no.  This is a case of someone who has no concept of what the job is; no concept of what Security Concerns are, and not concept of the proper channels to go through to research the matter.  I would start with a quick view of Killing with Keyboards and a visit to the CFRC where a more secure environment exists to make your query.

 

[Greymatters]

Do you know where the website is for that version you quoted in the old thread?  The version you posted has extra parts that are missing from the version Ive seen.

 

[simonsimon]

That depends. Are you attempting to apply to RegF or PRes? Is it possible? No. Why? Because you are assuming that you pass every single one of your courses without fail, which may happen but may not. You are also assuming that courses are back to back to back, which they're not. If you are PRes, which by the latter questions you are, the likelihood of you doing everything in one go is at the mercy of whether or not you've missed the que for certain courses. IntOs do CAP in the RegF without question of element. Navy IntOs in the PRes do not, but they do in the Army. BIOC is element dependent, and depending on when you finish your course, you may have missed the opportunity to join a BG.

Thanks for the input MedTech, much appreciated.

I am currently a civilian, but would want to join the RegF. Do you know if there is a high failure rate for the different courses (BOTC, CAP, BIOC)?

 

[Tanner]

Look up an Int branch and call the recruiting WO and they should be able to answer any questions about the trade.

 

[medaid]

BOTC is the initial "weeding" phase I suppose where potential officers are subjected to the military life. CAP has a HIGH failure rate due to physical fitness or other areas. The instructors are there to help you along and not to fail you so keep that in mind. BIOC... If you study, pay attention and learn you'll be fine

 

[twistedcables]

Thanks Wallace, for reminding all to be discreet when responding to questiosn requiring too much detail for a forum.  Recruiting Centres and the CF website ARE the best sites to get most info and the forum here does otherwise plenty to help.

I will say I have an app submitted with the CF as a Reg.  Held up by additional medical tests (shit I'm getting old!) but I have a very very unique background (includes work with 2 fed agencies), I speak 2 of the languages of interest for deplymnt to Afg - my background is also from that area --- but I dont have the degree - yet.  I will try to get my study subsidized and once I have the degree, hopefully by then I'll have had some experience as an NCM - mostly gained through deployment.

To put Officers in charge where they are obviously outdone by an NCM's skillset (attained through real life experience AND prof military trg) is disastrous for the battlespace preparation because of the IMAGE of a superior who is shitting himself while explosions rock the periphery.  On the other hand, a good officer does'nt have to be a master of the subject - he or she must effectively MANAGE that very-qualified NCM so as to produce a product acceptable to the Op's objectives.

I think they should make certain as much as possible candidates (NCM or Officers) are deployment-minded and I dont mean deployed to an office somewhere, crafting clever powerpoint presentations for soldiers on the ground to have to figure out what it means in terms of their life and death and the success of the mission.

 

[Greymatters]

I think they should make certain as much as possible candidates (NCM or Officers) are deployment-minded and I dont mean deployed to an office somewhere, crafting clever powerpoint presentations for soldiers on the ground to have to figure out what it means in terms of their life and death and the success of the mission. 

That is the ideal mentality, but there are always exceptions...

 

[blacktriangle]

Twisted...it sounds like you might enjoy a more field oriented INT experience? If so, maybe you are looking in the wrong places and thats all I will say.

 

[Greymatters]

Twisted...it sounds like you might enjoy a more field oriented INT experience? If so, maybe you are looking in the wrong places and that's all I will say.

I'm not sure how you want that interpretted - can you spell it out a bit more clearly?