Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[a_majoor]

Because of the cellular nature of terrorist organizations, it is entirely possible that no one member will be aware of any other operation (and even knowing in general terms that "other attacks are planned" really doesn't provide actionable intelligence).

RIP for the passengers at the airport and metro station

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'll try a different tact.

Anytime there is an attack such as this involving Islamic members it seems like select groups of individuals immediately begin talking about the perils of Islamophobia.

Radical Islamic Man and woman decide to murder a bunch of coworkers in the US? Well more people die from dogs shooting them by accident than terrorists in the US so whats the big deal.

 

[Jed]

It appears my previous posts were deleted so I'll try a different tact.

Anytime there is an attack such as this involving Islamic members it seems like select groups of individuals immediately begin talking about the perils of Islamophobia.

Radical Islamic Man and woman decide to murder a bunch of coworkers in the US? Well more people die from dogs shooting them by accident than terrorists in the US so whats the big deal.

What's the point ????  I must be missing the message you are attempting to convey.  Terrorism is a big deal. It terrorizes nations into submission if you do not combat it head on. As western civilized nations, we can not, must not, succumb to the sick horror we continue to witness.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I agree it's a big deal. My point is there are people in the world and our country who's first reaction is to suggest people are overreacting, racist or suffer from Islamophobia if they say these attacks are a big deal.

 

[Jed]

I agree it's a big deal. My point is there are people in the world and our country who's first reaction is to suggest people are overreacting, racist or suffer from Islamophobia if they say these attacks are a big deal.

I guess we are in violent aggreement.  [  Just my personal opinion, but it seems to me we have a lot more folks worried about "Islamophopia" than about the effects of terrorism on our societies. The average Joe and Jane just think, well if isn't in my backyard it's not my problem. Let the gov't guys worry about that. (As long as they don't spend any tax dollars trying to get a grip on it.)  Hey, honey... we need to get Janie to her hockey practice.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I think it might be more a question of:  yes, these attacks are significant, but if we want to prevent them, we should be sure that the solution doesn't make things worse.

If the bad guys' aim (at least in part) is to make the West hate all Muslims so the bad guys can have a fertile recruiting pool to draw from, and get that holy war a'rollin', then painting every Muslim with a broad brush feeds into that aim.

And just in case you think I'm looking at this as a clinical, sandal-wearing Muslim-lovin' lefty peacenik multiculturalist, someone I worked with for a long time works @ NATO HQ and I haven't heard anything from them yet - although I'm guessing mobile/cell and internet networks will be swamped due to folks checking in - so I'd like to see the appropriate bad guys brought to justice, too.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And just in case you think I'm looking at this as a clinical, sandal-wearing Muslim-lovin' lefty peacenik multiculturalist, someone I worked with for a long time works @ NATO HQ and I haven't heard anything from them yet - although I'm guessing mobile/cell and internet networks will be swamped due to folks checking in - so I'd like to see the appropriate bad guys brought to justice, too.

I don't think anyone ever thought that you, Milnews.

If you can take some comfort from this: I have been in touch with the wife of my friend who is at NATO HQ now, and she did manage to speak to him (doubt it's the same friend, he is British Royal Navy). She says that he told her that so far, none of the victims have been identified amongst the HQ personnel and as far as they can tell, everybody has checked in (her exact words).

 

[AbdullahD]

I hope god makes this easy for the victims

It is interesting how we need to combat terrorism, but we need to walk a fine line and not label all Muslims as terrorist. Because doing that will create the breeding ground milnews talked about.

Saying "Islamic Terrorists" did this, creates reactions in people who hold less then favorable views of Muslims that make terrorist recruitmemt easier.

So how do we reach out to the impressionable youth who will be affected by these fools, before the terrorists get to them. I think reporting needs to happen, but have other faiths reach out to Muslim youth so they can feel like a part of the community.

sorry i know this has been covered. i just hate seeing pointless death and destruction .

Abdullah

 

[a_majoor]

I hope god makes this easy for the victims

It is interesting how we need to combat terrorism, but we need to walk a fine line and not label all Muslims as terrorist. Because doing that will create the breeding ground milnews talked about.

Saying "Islamic Terrorists" did this, creates reactions in people who hold less then favorable views of Muslims that make terrorist recruitmemt easier.

So how do we reach out to the impressionable youth who will be affected by these fools, before the terrorists get to them. I think reporting needs to happen, but have other faiths reach out to Muslim youth so they can feel like a part of the community.

sorry i know this has been covered. i just hate seeing pointless death and destruction .

Abdullah

I think we discussed this either upthread or in a different thread, but part of the problem right now is the people being radicalized and taking action are not the "poor and dispossessed" but rather people who would be characterized as middle class or upper middle class, and who have the education and background of the middle class wherever they come from. I'm certainly not smart enough to suggest "how" to deal with this, and indeed my own admittedly skimpy reading of the Koran don't equip me to point out if the problem lies there. After all, the Bible is pretty full of violence and alarming statements (Stanley Kubrick brough this to satirical life in the movie "A Clockwork Orange" where the sociopathic Alex enjoys sermons by the priest because he is fantasizing about being the Centurion flogging Jesus), but very few people in real life go on murder sprees or suicide bombing based on biblical teachings.

I feel the answer lies elsewhere (culture perhaps?), and violent people are latching onto Islam as a casue, even if it is only peripherally relevant.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't think anyone ever thought that you, Milnews.

Still always good to be clear  ;D

If you can take some comfort from this: I have been in touch with the wife of my friend who is at NATO HQ now, and she did manage to speak to him (doubt it's the same friend, he is British Royal Navy). She says that he told her that so far, none of the victims have been identified amongst the HQ personnel and as far as they can tell, everybody has checked in (her exact words).

Just got an email from my bud.  It appears it's crazy trying to communicate out, but alle ist gut - thanks for sharing that.

 

[AbdullahD]

I think we discussed this either upthread or in a different thread, but part of the problem right now is the people being radicalized and taking action are not the "poor and dispossessed" but rather people who would be characterized as middle class or upper middle class, and who have the education and background of the middle class wherever they come from. I'm certainly not smart enough to suggest "how" to deal with this, and indeed my own admittedly skimpy reading of the Koran don't equip me to point out if the problem lies there. After all, the Bible is pretty full of violence and alarming statements (Stanley Kubrick brough this to satirical life in the movie "A Clockwork Orange" where the sociopathic Alex enjoys sermons by the priest because he is fantasizing about being the Centurion flogging Jesus), but very few people in real life go on murder sprees or suicide bombing based on biblical teachings.

I feel the answer lies elsewhere (culture perhaps?), and violent people are latching onto Islam as a casue, even if it is only peripherally relevant.

You know what, the more I read from you and others on this forum.. the more I feel you chaps should be formative members of the Anti-Terrorism units.

You are right, we have discussed it before. I have dealt with a couple myself and I know them to be anything but poor and ignorant. But for some reason I keep going to this mindset... somehow it is just a hard disconnect for me to think intelligent people do crap so stupid.

I think you are right culture or something else is the issue. I am starting to think that these people feel men are being emasculated these days and that these horrific acts are a way to feel manly.

Maybe it is culture, most of africa and the mid east has not seen a lot of peace for a long time and maybe it has worked itself into the psyche of the people.

Reading any holy book lightly and quickly can get a chap into anything he wants to get out of it. Mayhap it is a general ignorance Muslims have about Islam mxed with cultural and social issues or...

But I think you are on to something. Hopefully someone wise and powerful is on to it too and they find a solution. I'll do everything I can for the communities im in, but sadly this is a global issue not a local one.

Abdullah

 

[Jarnhamar]

Saying "Islamic Terrorists" did this, creates reactions in people who hold less then favorable views of Muslims that make terrorist recruitmemt easier.

Islamic terrorists DID do this. We owe it to the dead and injured to not mince words or find convenient politically correct neutral terms to describe the perpetrators.
Let's face it if calling an Islamic terrorist an Islamic terrorist pushes someone into the arms of the terrorists then honestly they were already well on their way in that direction.

 

[vonGarvin]

Let's face it if calling an Islamic terrorist an Islamic terrorist pushes someone into the arms of the terrorists then honestly they were already well on their way in that direction.

100% Agree.

 

[Loachman]

There are people from all faiths, levels of education, cultures, and regions that have some pretty wacky ideas. Plenty of otherwise-intelligent people do stupid/criminal/immoral stuff all over the planet. That is not unique to the Muslim world. Most are harmless and merely invite ridicule, but some of them - Nazis and Communists - have managed to cause (so far) even more death, destruction, and suffering than terrorists who claim to be fulfilling the wishes of Allah, and who are absolutely certain that they are true Muslims.

 

[Journeyman]

And just in case you think I'm looking at this as a clinical, sandal-wearing Muslim-lovin' lefty peacenik multiculturalist.....

NEVER~!

A bread-baking, sandal-wearing, Muslim-lovin', lefty peacenik, multiculturalist.... perhaps.  ;D



[not serious {OK, except about the bread-baking}.... just in case there are flinches brewing]

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=milnews.ca] then painting every Muslim with a broad brush feeds into that aim.

[/quote]

I agree with you 100%. At the same time I find suggesting not all Muslims are terrorists (while clearly true) is another one of those automatic responses after an attack.  I don't think most people need to be reminded not all Muslims are terrorists, the ones who DO believe that aren't in a position to have their mind changed anyways.


I would say one of my biggest issues or concerns about Islam (and though it Muslims) is how quickly "average" every day peace loving law abiding Muslims seem ready to turn ultra violent.  Burn a bible in front of a church surrounded by it's congregation and you may get called an asshole but that's probably it. Good chance some of them will want to hug you. Try that with a Quran and you may very well get ripped apart.

Look at Farkhunda Malikzada. She was a 27 year old Afghan woman living in Kabul who was murdered by a mob in March of 2015. We're not talking about hard core Taliban but "average" citizens. They thought she burned a Quran, a mob formed and the crowd stomped on her, kicked her in the head and started ripping at her clothes. The local police tried in vain to remove her but they were overwhelmed by the crowd.  She was then beaten into unconsciousness, ran over with a car, dragged  300 feet with the car then they set her on fire and watched her burn. The crowd apparently used parts of their own clothing to keep the fire going because the womans own clothes were too soaked in blood to stay alight.
It was found she never burned anything.  She was simply accused of it by a mullah with whom she was arguing with.

Islam goes from 0 to BURN THE HERETIC in seconds and I believe that's what sets it apart from the majority of other religions and one of the reasons it rubs so many people the wrong way.

 

[OldSolduer]

Islam goes from 0 to BURN THE HERETIC in seconds and I believe that's what sets it apart from the majority of other religions and one of the reasons it rubs so many people the wrong way.

Given the right circumstances, so could Christians. So called "Christians" lynched African Americans - and sent postcards about it.

 

[The Bread Guy]

NEVER~!

A bread-baking, sandal-wearing, Muslim-lovin', lefty peacenik, multiculturalist.... perhaps.  ;D



[not serious {OK, except about the bread-baking}.... just in case there are flinches brewing]

:rofl:

 

[ArmyRick]

Battling this issue from my perspective is a multiangle approach

-Acknowledge that it was Islamic terrorist this time
-In the past we have had IRA, KKK, Black Panthers, Communist Guerellas, Basque Separatist, FLQ, etc Terrorist have come in many flavours
-We must have contingency plans in place and take the appropriate preventive measures
-Do not, DO NOT label all Muslims as terrorist and go on a lynch mob rampage
-For the Muslim community, it would go along way to hear public outrage against such actions (the terrorist incidents in Paris and Brussels)
-Let Police, CSIS, Military do their jobs
-IF/When we catch such people, the justice must be swift and severe to deter others (If you stand against Canada and her allies, NO MERCY)

I believe that education and "reverse indoctrination" (living in western culture) can go along ways to help combat Islamic radicalisation. It will take along way and a long time to fight this problem.
It needs a change in the way people think and believe, not just in the way they act (we want more than compliance, we want everybody to embrace our Canadian culture)

Note I say Canadian culture NOT christian culture

I personally want to emphasize some of the true Canadian democratic beliefs I hold to (separation of Church and state in other words Sharia Law NEVER, equality among people of different sexes, race and religion, equal judgement of others regardless of income, race, creed, etc , we all have an equal say when we are law abiding citizens)

 

[cavalryman]

:goodpost: