Israel (IDF) versus Gaza aid ships- updates

[57Chevy]

Same subject, secong boat (ship?) :
Israeli troops say they have taken control of an aid ship trying to
break the blockade of the Gaza Strip. Israel's military says soldiers
boarded the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie from the sea and did not
meet any resistance. It says the ship is now being taken to the
Israeli port of Ashdod.

If it was stirictly humanitarian aid then they should consider going straight to the port of Ashdod.
Humanitarian aid does not try to break blockades. They are supposed to be neutral, like the Red Cross. Activists of any kind should not even be allowed to be on "Aid Ships". And furthermore, if
certains items are disallowed, it should be respected. Where is the cement going now?

 

[vonGarvin]

This wasn't about Humanitarian Aid: this was about breaking the blockade.  Hell, even the ship's name is an insult:
Rachael Corrie:
Teaching the young'uns about tolerance and acceptance:

Bullhorn vs Bulldozer.  My money is on the bulldozer:

I think she slipped:

This is what happens when you're too stupid to walk to the side of a bulldozer.  Unless Isreal has those jet-powered bulldozers now:

It's too bad she had to die.  But people die.  In this case, of terminal stupidity.

Now, I'm not taking sides. If you wish to protest the blockade because you feel it is unjust or whatever, then that's fine.  If you try to run the blockade, international law is on the side of Israel, I'm afriad, so you may as well try to mimic Rachael Corrie and stop bulldozers with your face.

 

[George Wallace]

Here is a different look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg

Not that the people on the ships were quite well prepared to do violence.

 

[Teeps74]

This wasn't about Humanitarian Aid: this was about breaking the blockade.  Hell, even the ship's name is an insult:
Rachael Corrie:
Teaching the young'uns about tolerance and acceptance:

Bullhorn vs Bulldozer.  My money is on the bulldozer:

I think she slipped:

This is what happens when you're too stupid to walk to the side of a bulldozer.  Unless Isreal has those jet-powered bulldozers now:

It's too bad she had to die.  But people die.  In this case, of terminal stupidity.

Now, I'm not taking sides. If you wish to protest the blockade because you feel it is unjust or whatever, then that's fine.  If you try to run the blockade, international law is on the side of Israel, I'm afriad, so you may as well try to mimic Rachael Corrie and stop bulldozers with your face.

To be blunt. Ms Corrie was murdered. Much like Maj Hess Von Krudener.

Not to take sides, but pointing out facts.

 

[vonGarvin]

To be blunt. Ms Corrie was murdered. Much like Maj Hess Von Krudener.

She died of terminal stupidity.  My 9 year old can outrun a bulldozer, and has the wits to not stand in front of one. 

It is a false dichotomy to assert that Maj HVK's death was anything like that of Ms Corrie's.  You may as well say that Claus von Stauffenberg was also murdered.  So was John Lennon. 

 

[Teeps74]

She died of terminal stupidity.  My 9 year old can outrun a bulldozer, and has the wits to not stand in front of one. 

It is a false dichotomy to assert that Maj HVK's death was anything like that of Ms Corrie's.  You may as well say that Claus von Stauffenberg was also murdered.  So was John Lennon.

Utter BS and you know it. What was stupid was the IDF "winning" the hearts and minds by running over a girl, with a blow horn and wearing a pointer vest. It was murder, no different then using precision munitions to bomb a white painted UN OP.

The IDF have absolutely nothing to teach us other then how NOT to win an insurgency battle.

 

[bdave]

We can't forget there was lots of clubs, knives, sling shots and an angry mob of pro HAMAS supporters with open agendas. Who knows what real contraband was on board, and that will come out in time.

I guess since their goal was to break the blockade, they figured they would need some sort of defense.
They could have also figured, given Israel's rap sheet, that they would be attacked.
In either case, the only purpose of my post was to explain why concrete is a humanitarian aid.

Real peaceful people on a mission of peace for/with humitarian aid would have allowed all vessels to be boarded (EDITs to add without incident) and the cargo inspected before released. Thus allowing for the aid to be delivered to those who need it ASAP after clearance. That make sense to me.

I read that most of the vessels were O.K. with letting Israel  commandos board.
It was only one or two that refused to be boarded.
All things aside, these commandos must not be very smart if they're going to rappel into a crowd holding sticks and knives.
Almost like they did it on purpose.

Too bad you did not include the pics of Palestinians moving the same smashed corpses from bombsite to bombsite. All for propaganda pics, just like the whole flotilla was - propaganda for their cause.

Can you back this up?
The propaganda pics and articles will pop up on both sides. Everyone always tries to manipulate the situation in their favor.
Israel does this too. Is the body count of 1000 civilians in the Gaza War also propaganda? Whether these bodies were moved or not, is again, a moot point. The reality of the pictures is what I think is most important.
The fact of the matter is: a lot of people died.

As for being bomb damage here is what muslims did to each other in Baghdad. http://www.youtube.com/user/1feral1#p/a/u/1/z35MEEBu1-U This is a video I took moments after a huge SVBIED (dump truck) about 1500 metres from our location. 69 killed in that one alone, and the other smaller one killed 26.

My, grandmother, what a large brush you have!
What does that have to do with the situation in Palestine?

My definition of a bleeding heart is someone who is sympathetic towards the enemy or their cause.

Has Hamas attacked Canada?
You will have to elaborate on your statement because I honestly do not know.
I do not support Hamas. I support the civilians. One of my Palestinian friends had some of her younger family killed. We're talking about 10 year old kids, here. Nothing ever justifies that. Bombing schools and hospitals to "defend yourself" is bullshit. It violates the 4th Geneva Convention that Israel is signatory to and highly immoral.

The over 600 tunnels from Egypt bring in staples such as tiles, cement etc for rebuilding. That along with weapons, and ammo too of course. If you think the Palestinians are squeaky clean, you're wrong. Israel has a right to defend itself and will continue the blockade regardless.

The over 600 tunnels from Egypt probably do not bring enough concrete for rebuilding.
Sources online say that even now, a year after the Gaza War has ended, only 25 percent of the damage has been rebuilt.
Concerning Hamas being squeaky clean: Never ever said that.
I know very well that Hamas is not squeaky clean.
I will say this, though: during the American Revolutionary War, the then to be United States of America considered themselves freedom fighters, and were considered terrorists by the British.
I see the situation as very similar. Both will fight for their beliefs. The Palestinians/Hamas do not want to be oppressed and controlled by Israel. Israel wants to keep Palestine but does not want to be attacked.

Israel has a right to defend itself, but Palestine does too. No arguments there.

Some sources:
http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_situation_report_2009_01_02_english.pdf
http://www.ochaopt.org/gazacrisis/admin/output/files/ocha_opt_who_gaza_situation_report_2009_02_04_english.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/01/gaza-food-crisis

Good post, Overwatch Downunder.

 

[Haletown]

"The over 600 tunnels from Egypt probably do not bring enough concrete for rebuilding.
Sources online say that even now, a year after the Gaza War has ended, only 25 percent of the damage has been rebuilt."

So if they are so short of concrete in Gaza, where'd they get the materials to build the recently opened Olympic sized swimming pool?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html

Pretty slick looking  facility . . .  a nice slum they live in.


Or maybe Hamas, the same jihadis who fire mortars and rockets from schools and hospitals and who use human hostages . . . aka their own civilians, as shields, just won't let  these civilians rebuild because they are useful propaganda tools.

Seems to help build the tourism business and fill the seats in those nice restaurants in Gaza City.

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html


I'm sure Hamas is suitably taxing those restaurants and suing the proceeds to build schools and hospitals to assist their people, instead of buying weapons that they can use to murder Israeli civilians.

 

[bdave]

"The over 600 tunnels from Egypt probably do not bring enough concrete for rebuilding.
Sources online say that even now, a year after the Gaza War has ended, only 25 percent of the damage has been rebuilt."

So if they are so short of concrete in Gaza, where'd they get the materials to build the recently opened Olympic sized swimming pool?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html

Pretty slick looking  facility . . .  a nice slum they live in.


Or maybe Hamas, the same jihadis who fire mortars and rockets from schools and hospitals and who use human hostages . . . aka their own civilians, as shields, just won't let  these civilians rebuild because they are useful propaganda tools.

Seems to help build the tourism business and fill the seats in those nice restaurants in Gaza City.

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html


I'm sure Hamas is suitably taxing those restaurants and suing the proceeds to build schools and hospitals to assist their people, instead of buying weapons that they can use to murder Israeli civilians.

:rofl:
I don't understand your post.
If someone bombs Quebec City, would you then go and show me pictures of Montreal going 'Oh, look, the Olympic Stadium is fine"?
I imagine an Olympic pool with a facility of that complexity and magnitude would take a couple of years to plan and build. I'm sure it wasn't built overnight while the Gaza War was going on.
What this has to do with the fact that Israel did indeed destroy several thousands homes and that they [the Palestinians] do not have the required material to rebuild everything is beyond me.

If every Palestinian home lay in ruins and all Palestinians were clutching their bloody stumps it would be believable; the moment they have one nice thing, they must obviously be liars!

You are grasping at straws here.


Final thing,
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html
Totally unbiased, I'm sure.

 

[bdave]

I need to clarify something.
I am not anti Israel or Anti Jew or anything along those lines.
I have many Jewish friends. I have Israeli friends.
One of my closest friends' family member is an officer in the Israeli forces. I have met and spoke with him. He is a nice person.

I am on this board to discuss things. I am not here to push my agenda or to burn bridges. I just want people to justify their words so that I may better understand the situation, better understand their thoughts and learn. I am here to pick the brains of those much more experienced than I.

I mentioned before that I am playing devil's advocate here, and that I completely understand and agree with Israel concerning the flotilla.
I noticed that (in part my fault), the discussion has moved from the flotilla to the Palestinian condition.
Ironically, I fully believe that the flotilla was not there to necessarily bring aid but to bring attention to Palestine's condition and make Israel look bad. They have succeeded.

 

[1feral1]

I need to clarify something.
I am not anti Israel or Anti Jew or anything along those lines.

Its okay Dave to be sympathetic to the enemy, we all can have opinions. Your agenda has been made obvious throughout this entire thread, so no need to cover up or explain. That 'I have friends who are Israeli... and he is a nice guy' made me laugh on this chilly and crisp winter's morning.

My SVBIED video was to demonstrate the damage muslims can do to each other. In Palestine when they can't fight Israel, they have a go at each other internally. There will never be peace in that region, they're nothing but savages IMHO, hatred and violence run as deep there was hockey and pancakes in Canada.

Some links....

http://www.think-israel.org/mcleod.greenhelmetguy.html

This one is from this site, and has more info on the bodies used for propaganda, fill your boots reading it. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47186/post-421339.html#msg421339

Although you're only 22 and have no life experience, don't be so bloody niave. Talk is cheap Dave.

http://www.viciousbabushka.com/2009/08/get-the-popcorn-hamas-al-qaeda-kill-each-other-in-gaza.html

Feast your eyes on this one Dave, maybe it will wake you up to who you are supporting http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=1883 as you live in the safety of your living room. This is what you're dealing with over there Dave.

I'll sum up by saying WAR is truly the worst ever four lettered word, people die, bads guys, and the innocent, just like the over 40,0000 citizens of England who were killed in the Blitz, or the 10s of thousands killed by us in Dresden in one night, and that was deliberate!

In modern warfare we try to minimize civilian casualties, and warn in advance often, so the innocent can leave. Israel did infact warn the public in 2006. Even on my tour, unarmed people were shot and killed due to circumstances beyond our control. Our Combat Team even made the headlines in Stars and Stripes for one such incident, and thats nothing to be proud of. War is war, people die.

If criticising the good guys makes you and your Palestinian friends feel better, all the power to you, afterall we live in a democracy.

Time for some pancakes, I am hungry.

Regards,

OWDU

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

I need to clarify something.
I am not anti Israel or Anti Jew or anything along those lines.
I have many Jewish friends. I have Israeli friends.
One of my closest friends' family member is an officer in the Israeli forces. I have met and spoke with him. He is a nice person.

To my knowledge I have no Jewish friends (backwoods Alberta) etc. etc. etc.  The people of Gaza have chosen to go to war with Israel.  The government of Gaza, supported by the people, is firing on Israel on a daily basis.  It is thoroughly ridiculous that those who would wage war cry like babies when their war produces consequences. 

Part of the problem is caused by Israel in that it has never handed its enemies a thorough enough thrashing that they beg for peace.  It worked for us on Germany and Japan.  Until that day comes my grandkids will be watching similar newscasts in their old age.

 

[57Chevy]

Hundreds protest at anti-Israeli rallies across Canada:

MONTREAL — Hundreds of protesters turned out for rallies across Canada on Saturday to demonstrate against Israel’s blockade of Gaza, which has been thrust back into the international spotlight by the Israeli military’s deadly raid on a humanitarian aid flotilla.

In Montreal, a crowd of hundreds marching peacefully but boisterously carried placards with slogans such as “Boycott Israel” and “I am ashamed to live in the country that calls itself the best friend of Israel.”

It was one of several Canadian protests — with events planned in Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Victoria — in addition to much larger demonstrations in Europe, which drew crowds of thousands.

Nine people were killed this week when Israel used military force on a ship in an aid convoy headed for the Gaza Strip.

Israel has said its soldiers were defending themselves, but the event has ignited international outrage. The slaying of the nine people, many of them Turks, prompted Turkey to recall its ambassador to Tel Aviv and cancel joint military exercises with the Jewish state.

The Israeli blockade has been in effect for four years, ostensibly to stop the Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip from bolstering their arsenal to fight the Jewish state.

However critics have said the blockade goes too far, pointing out the inclusion of such seemingly innocuous objects as chocolate.

On Saturday, Israel peacefully boarded another ship trying to defy its blockade of Gaza, taking the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie back to dock in Israel.

“We woke up this morning to the bad news that Israel has not learned from what happened last Monday,” said Laith Marouf, one of the protest organizers in Montreal. “The Rachel Corrie didn’t make it, but the next flotilla will be much bigger, with 50, 60 or 100 ships.”

Organizers called on Canada and Quebec to send an aid ship in the next aid flotilla to Gaza.


Stacey Miller brought her four-year-old daughter along to the Montreal protest.

“I’m here because I’m horrified by the attack on the Freedom Flotilla and the killing of humanitarian aid workers,” she said, adding she hopes media coverage of protests around the world will show the people of Gaza they are not alone.

The Canadian government has not condemned Israel for its raids, but has said it supports a prompt, impartial inquiry into the deadly events of earlier in the week.

In Europe, tens of thousands of people demonstrated Saturday.

Angry protesters chanting anti-Israeli slogans and waving Palestinian and Turkish flags took to the streets of Istanbul, London, Dublin and Paris as well as a string of other French cities.

Demonstrators branded Israel a “murderer,” demanded that it lift its blockade.

In France, over 20,000 people, including 5,000 in Paris, vented their anger at Israel’s handling of the aid flotilla, police said.

Montreal Gazette

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Hundreds+protest+anti+Israeli+rallies+Montreal+Toronto/3117865/story.html#ixzz0q2147Vui

 

[57Chevy]

“We woke up this morning to the bad news that Israel has not learned from what happened last Monday,” said Laith Marouf, one of the protest organizers in Montreal. “The Rachel Corrie didn’t make it, but the next flotilla will be much bigger, with 50, 60 or 100 ships.”

The Rachel Corrie is docked in the port of Ashdod:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0605/breaking1.html

PAMELA NEWENHAM

Irish-Malaysian vessel the MV Rachel Corrie  has been escorted into the Israeli port of Ashdod after being seized by troops close to the Gaza shore this morning.

The passengers aboard the humanitarian ship, which was intercepted by Israeli troops 25 miles outside Gaza, have been taken to Holon detention centre according to the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

Former UN assistant secretary general Denis Halliday and Nobel peace laureate Mairéad Maguire were among the Irish citizens on board the 1,200-tonne ship, which was shadowed by Israeli ships since dawn.

The crew  had rejected a deal to unload its cargo in Israel and accompany it across the border.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay today said Israel's blockade of Gaza was illegal and should be lifted, reiterating calls for an investigation into Israel's raid on aid supply ships this week.

"International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and...it is also prohibited to impose collective punishment on civilians," Ms Pillay said.

"I have consistently reported to member states that the blockade is illegal and must be lifted."

She said that even if the blockade were proven legal under international law, Israel's military operation against the flotilla on Monday had to be analysed alongside its obligation to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza.

Earlier this morning, activists aboard the vessel said its equipment on board had been jammed, blaming the Israeli Defence Force (IDF).

In a statement issued by the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Jenny Graham, who is on board, said the ship would have no part in a deal that involved legitimising the siege of Gaza.

"We intend to continue on our mission to deliver our cargo of aid and supplies to the people of Gaza. This has always been our intention," she added.

A demonstration took place in Dublin city centre today at which some of those involved in the flotilla spoke. The protesters marched from the Garden of Remembrance where there was a symbolic wreath laying by Turan Centiner, Turkish consul to Ireland  to the Department of Foreign affairs.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

"International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and...

I imagine cement leaves a nasty aftertaste.  Brings a whole new meaning to defecating bricks.

 

[57Chevy]

I would still like to know what happens to all that cement, seeing that it made up half of the cargo of
the Mari Marmara. I noted in some of the posted videos that neither "community" has the real need
of that particular comodity. And obviously they must have known that it is disallowed. So, who gets the cement? Is it sent back? Or does Isreal take ownership?
And then there is that video of the corrupted version of "We are the world". Stating how they duped everyone. What does that mean? Is there a hidden agenda? Is there something hidden in all that cement?
As bdave said, "like they did it on purpose". Maybe they did.
And now its all blown out of proportion on the world stage.
I wonder.
My  :2c:

 

[CougarKing]

I would still like to know what happens to all that cement

Why is everyone on this thread so fixated on the CEMENT all the sudden?  ;D

 

[1feral1]

I thought cement would be low on the priority, but Israel has banned this as it can be used for military purposes, and thats fair enough, and considering HAMAS's track record this is to be expected.

This and other contraband do make it through the tunnels, which are more complex in size, construction and configurment than one can think. Some are huge, even with electricilty throughout the length. I watched a special on Australian 60 Minutes recently, and I was suprised what they were bringing through them. You name it, they got it in.

OWDU

EDITed for spelling

 

[The Bread Guy]

....maybe to prove how Muslim it is?

Some philanthropist with wake conscious had organized the launching of flotilla of liberation with the support of the Muslim nation of Turkey. The aim was to show a humanitarian and moral sympathy with the oppressed Muslims of the Gaza Strip and thus end the four-year long sea blockade by the invading Zionist forces. But the Zionist invaders brutally attacked the flotilla which was showing sympathy (with Gaza Muslims) before its arrival at the destination, ironically at a time when many passengers aboard were performing early morning prayers.

The Israeli brutal forces first laid siege to six boats of the flotilla of liberation with the help of hundreds of military boats and helicopters. Then (Israeli) commandos and marines launched brutal attack, killing armless civilians on the deck of the flotilla and injuring 52 others. This barbaric, inhuman and immoral attack of the Zionists on the envoys of peace and sympathy violate all Divine and human laws. There is no instance of such events in any other culture except in the (distinctive) culture of Zionism based on bestiality ....

Full statement here or in PDF at non-terrorist site here.

 

[Jungle]

All, consider the situation in Gaza:

The Roots Club: http://www.rootsclub.ps/index.php

An olympic-sized swimming pool was inaugurated in Gaza last month: http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html

This is a page from the Palestinian News Agency Palestine Today: http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

I don't see much suffering and starvation...