RPAS (was JUSTAS): the project to buy armed Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAVs

[Ostrozac]

There are a number of Canadian Squadron crests that depict native people. That, apparently, does not match modern sensitivities.

That’s an interesting, and slightly more nuanced, point. There are also squadron badges that depict stylized ‘European’ warriors — 414 Squadron’s Black Knight comes to mind. Do we want to erase all aboriginal imagery from our crests, while leaving the European imagery intact? That seems counterproductive to me, and doesn‘t strike me as particularly diverse.

But there are heraldic specialists in this field, albeit that didn’t prevent Canada Command’s dragon and wyvern badge, AKA ’the fighting seahorses’. There weren't many tattoos made of that one,

 

[dimsum]

That’s an interesting, and slightly more nuanced, point. There are also squadron badges that depict stylized ‘European’ warriors — 414 Squadron’s Black Knight comes to mind. Do we want to erase all aboriginal imagery from our crests, while leaving the European imagery intact? That seems counterproductive to me, and doesn‘t strike me as particularly diverse.

But there are heraldic specialists in this field, albeit that didn’t prevent Canada Command’s dragon and wyvern badge, AKA ’the fighting seahorses’. There weren't many tattoos made of that one,

Removing depictions that can be considered racist =/= removing all Indigenous depictions. I don’t think anyone will be offended at 426 (Thunderbird) or 442 (Snake) sqn’s crest.

I do think someone might be offended at 421 (Red Indian) sqn’s crest.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Commander, 1 Canadian Air Division. At a townhall. Several Sqn crests are being re-designed to remove elements considered racist today or any glorification of death.

What a fairy

I got some ideas from others for Crests though:

 

[dimsum]

That’s an interesting, and slightly more nuanced, point. There are also squadron badges that depict stylized ‘European’ warriors — 414 Squadron’s Black Knight comes to mind. Do we want to erase all aboriginal imagery from our crests, while leaving the European imagery intact? That seems counterproductive to me, and doesn‘t strike me as particularly diverse.

To add, knights aren’t (currently) seen in a negative manner in western societies. Now, whether that was historically accurate is another matter. The RMC sports team is called the Paladins.

But there are heraldic specialists in this field, albeit that didn’t prevent Canada Command’s dragon and wyvern badge, AKA ’the fighting seahorses’. There weren't many tattoos made of that one,View attachment 81918

I admit I’ve never seen that crest before, but people don’t really associate their military service with higher formations or Commands. It’s almost always the unit - Bn/Regt, ship, or squadron.

When was the last time a veteran said “once a member of 2 Canadian Air Division, always a member of 2 CAD”?

 

[lenaitch]

Outlaw m/c gangs must be shaking in their boots in fear of the government legislating their colours.

If we're going to get rid of mythical heraldry, what happens to the unicorn? It can be seriously argued that it exists in modern form in Canadian society, especially successful and timely government procurement projects.

 

[dimsum]

Outlaw m/c gangs must be shaking in their boots in fear of the government legislating their colours.

If we're going to get rid of mythical heraldry, what happens to the unicorn? It can be seriously argued that it exists in modern form in Canadian society, especially successful and timely government procurement projects.

If outlaw MC groups cared about the police or govt, they’re not that outlaw then, are they

No one said (or least I didn’t catch) that anyone is looking to get rid of mythical heraldry symbols. As I mentioned before, some racist or derogatory things are being changed. That is not a bad thing.

A bit (more) of a tangent but a few years ago, a US Indigenous sports team changed its name from Iroquois to Haundenosaunee. The reason? “Iroquois” was a derogatory name given to them by the Huron, and when the French arrived, they met the Huron first. So when they met the Haundenosaunee, the French asked who they were and the Huron said “Iroquois”, which meant “snake” (and not in a good way). I believe that a similar story is how the Sioux got their common name.

Anyway, I believe that stuff like that should be changed to whatever the people call themselves.

About Haudenosaunee Nationals Lacrosse

The Haudenosaunee Nationals Lacrosse Organization is an indigenous sports organization (the only one of its kind in the world) that competes on the world stage.

haudenosauneenationals.com

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Our Canadian Youtuber touches on the subject

 

[FSTO]

To add, knights aren’t (currently) seen in a negative manner in western societies. Now, whether that was historically accurate is another matter. The RMC sports team is called the Paladins.


I admit I’ve never seen that crest before, but people don’t really associate their military service with higher formations or Commands. It’s almost always the unit - Bn/Regt, ship, or squadron.

When was the last time a veteran said “once a member of 2 Canadian Air Division, always a member of 2 CAD”?

Always a member of the RCN, sailed in ships ..............

 

[dimsum]

Our Canadian Youtuber touches on the subject

Pedantic alert

The MQ-9B is not the Reaper. The MQ-9A is the Reaper. The MQ-9B is different enough that GA-ASI (and the RAF) named it something else. GA-ASI calls it the SkyGuardian/SeaGuardian, whereas the RAF will call it the Protector.

Analogy: The F/A-18A through D is called the Hornet. The F/A-18E and F are called the Super Hornet.

The reason why this is important is that the JUSTAS/RPAS program has been going on for a very long time. However, what the program was looking at in 2007 and what the RCAF was looking at in 2023 are not the same thing.

In 2007, the program was looking at the MQ-9A. In 2023, the program was looking at the MQ-9B, which wasn’t a thing in 2007. Why the RCAF hasn’t put that in big neon letters in their pressers, or at least their Q&A, is beyond me.

 

[dimsum]

Always a member of the RCN, sailed in ships ..............

Ah, but what class of ship?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Why the RCAF hasn’t put that in big neon letters in their pressers, or at least their Q&A, is beyond me.

You provided the answer yourself!

Pedantic alert

The general population just doesn’t care.

 

[dimsum]

The general population just doesn’t care.

Agreed, but my comment wasn’t towards the general population. Those folks think DJI quadcopters and Global Hawks are the same. Most of those folks wouldn’t care if the Hornet and the Super Hornet are the same either.

My comment was towards CAF members who would care enough to ask why the program has gone on for almost 20 years to get the “same thing” (it isn’t).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You provided the answer yourself!


The general population just doesn’t care.

The grey ones

 

[Good2Golf]

Why the RCAF hasn’t put that in big neon letters in their pressers, or at least their Q&A, is beyond me.

Why advertise requirements creep…might as well ask the Auditor General to write the DND press release…

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Pedantic alert

The MQ-9B is not the Reaper. The MQ-9A is the Reaper. The MQ-9B is different enough that GA-ASI (and the RAF) named it something else. GA-ASI calls it the SkyGuardian/SeaGuardian, whereas the RAF will call it the Protector.

Analogy: The F/A-18A through D is called the Hornet. The F/A-18E and F are called the Super Hornet.

The reason why this is important is that the JUSTAS/RPAS program has been going on for a very long time. However, what the program was looking at in 2007 and what the RCAF was looking at in 2023 are not the same thing.

In 2007, the program was looking at the MQ-9A. In 2023, the program was looking at the MQ-9B, which wasn’t a thing in 2007. Why the RCAF hasn’t put that in big neon letters in their pressers, or at least their Q&A, is beyond me.

If anyone is interested here is the link to data sheets for the MQ-9A Reaper (aka Predator B) and the data sheet for the MQ-9B Seaguardian.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Our Canadian Youtuber touches on the subject

Trudeau will probably give them to Ukraine. If it's still around by then.

 

[dimsum]

Trudeau will probably give them to Ukraine. If it's still around by then.

So…you’re saying that Trudeau will be running the country in 2028?

That is…not in line with your usual political slant

 

[KevinB]

So…you’re saying that Trudeau will be running the country in 2028?

That is…not in line with your usual political slant

It’s also not up to Canada alone, as it’s a US manufactured item and the end user is Canada, who would need US approval for any third party transfer.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So…you’re saying that Trudeau will be running the country in 2028?

That is…not in line with your usual political slant

We really need that sarcasm emoji.

 

[calculus]

MQ-9B passes 40K hour fatigue lifetime test:

GA-ASI Completes First Lifetime for Full-Scale Fatigues Test on MQ-9B

On Dec. 5, 2023, General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. (GA-ASI) completed a major milestone with the full-scale fatigue testing of an MQ-9B Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA). The team completed the “first lifetime” of fatigue testing – which is equivalent to 40,000 operating hours – and...

www.ga-asi.com