Leave - Recall and Other Issues [MERGED]

[Eye In The Sky]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page

Section 1 - General

16.01 - WITHHOLDING OF AND RECALL FROM LEAVE

(1) Leave may be withheld from an officer or non-commissioned member only when there is a military requirement to do so.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member on leave may be recalled to duty only:
a.because of imperative military requirements; and
b.when the member's commanding officer personally directs the member's return to duty.

(3) An officer or non-commissioned member recalled to duty under paragraph (2) ceases to be on leave and is on duty during the period of the journey from the place from which he is recalled to his place of duty and during the period of the return journey if he resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which he was recalled.

As for how much time, I can't say that I've ever seen that in a reg or order before.  What if I am on leave in the UK and get recalled?  How much time to I have?

First question, under who's direction (not the same as authority) was your leave 'cancelled';  the QR & O is clear IMO.

 

[ratatomik]

Yeah i stumbled about that ref too. However, its pretty generic and doesnt give precise timeline. I guess its a case by case kind of thing. Thanks tho.

 

[captloadie]

Although it is situation dependant, we are not on a leash (unless you are given a pager/duty phone/Blackberry).

If your normal shift has ended, you haven't been given any other instructions, and then they can't get ahold of you, there isn't much the CoC can do but wait for you to return the message (well, they could send out the MPs, but that usually means something is really wrong). And you shouldn't be in crap for it.

Now, if you answered the call and said you'd be right in, and didn't show for three hours, that's a different story.

 

[mariomike]

Although it is situation dependant, we are not on a leash (unless you are given a pager/duty phone/Blackberry).

There was an interesting discussion about that,
http://army.ca/forums/threads/117338.0
"a hypothetical discussion took place with regards to an expectation that we are to be available for contact off-duty or on leave."

Shiftwork, weekends and leave.

This may help,

leave recall, and other leave issues 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/116686.0;nowap

 

[JesseWZ]

If your normal shift has ended, you haven't been given any other instructions, and then they can't get ahold of you, there isn't much the CoC can do but wait for you to return the message (well, they could send out the MPs, but that usually means something is really wrong). And you shouldn't be in crap for it.

We don't normally go find someone unless there is:

a) reason to believe they are in trouble or will harm themselves; or

b) a CO's warrant for arrest for the person due to them being AWOL.

We aren't typically a taxi service (though there is the odd time we can be - family member deceased just to name the first item on my mind).

 

[Lumber]

Yeah i stumbled about that ref too. However, its pretty generic and doesnt give precise timeline. I guess its a case by case kind of thing. Thanks tho.

In the fleet we have a maximum time of 4 hrs from the time a recall is initiated to the time we need to be at the ship. That doesn't mean take your time; you come straight to the ship. Realistically, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to get a hold of you within 4 hours, unless your watching a screen of the extended edition of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

4 hours based on...

The CAF Leave Manual states I am not required to put in a leave pass for normal weekends I am not on duty, and I am allowed to travel, as long as I am back at my expected time Monday morning, right? So let's say on a weekend, I fly to Toronto.  I am not on leave, not on duty, etc.  IAW published CAF policy, I am authorized to travel on the weekend as long as I am back at my expected time.

Now what?  Where is the reg stating the 4 hours deal?  Word of mouth? 

 

[Haggis]

I ride a motorcycle - a lot.  On weekends I would routinely stray far more than 4 hours from NDHQ (sometimes the farther the better  ;D ).  Having researched this, there is no hard and fast rule articulating a specific time window in which you were expected to report back upon recall.  Unless you were notified in advance that you were subject to potential recall, within a set time period, you could only be expected back "within a reasonable time".  So, if I rode to Toronto, a "reasonable time" would be four to six hours.

No unit should expect you, on a weekend, to remain within four hours without being subject to advance notification of potential recall.  What if you'd had a few beers at a BBQ?  8 hours from bottle to throttle then applies.

 

[George Wallace]

4 hours based on...

The CAF Leave Manual states I am not required to put in a leave pass for normal weekends I am not on duty, and I am allowed to travel, as long as I am back at my expected time Monday morning, right? So let's say on a weekend, I fly to Toronto.  I am not on leave, not on duty, etc.  IAW published CAF policy, I am authorized to travel on the weekend as long as I am back at my expected time.

Now what?  Where is the reg stating the 4 hours deal?  Word of mouth?

If you have traveled outside of your "Unit Boundaries", then you would need a Leave Pass.  I would say that your being in a "Western Province" and flying to "Toronto" (well outside of your "Units Boundaries") on a weekend, without a Leave Pass, would not be within published CAF policies. 

 

[AmmoTech90]

If you have traveled outside of your "Unit Boundaries", then you would need a Leave Pass.  I would say that your being in a "Western Province" and flying to "Toronto" (well outside of your "Units Boundaries") on a weekend, without a Leave Pass, would not be within published CAF policies.

Absolutely wrong.

From the Leave Manual

2.1.04 Weekends and Holidays

Weekends and Holidays are included on Form CF 100 when they form part of a leave period in conjunction with other types of leave that are reckoned in working days. A CF 100 is not required for a member proceeding exclusively on weekends and/or designated or other holidays, except when:
•when travelling to a foreign country, or to a country other than the one where the member is employed;
•when travel benefits are requested (eg. LTA); or
•when required for ration accounting purposes for members authorized to draw rations on a continuous basis. 

 

[Lumber]

If you have traveled outside of your "Unit Boundaries", then you would need a Leave Pass.  I would say that your being in a "Western Province" and flying to "Toronto" (well outside of your "Units Boundaries") on a weekend, without a Leave Pass, would not be within published CAF policies.

I was also under this impression for the past 9 years. Even at RMC we were told that if we were driving home for the weekend, we were to have a leave pass in case something happened to us while we were out of area. We were told (and I've been told many times since), that if I'm injured while travelling out of area without a leave pass, I may not be covered. But having read CF Leave Policy Manual section 2.1.04 - "Weekends and Holidays", I'm wondering were this widespread misconception came from. Is there another reference somewhere? There is nothing in the MARLANTORDs..

 

[Eye In The Sky]

A lot of that changed when the Leave Policy Manual came out.  But I remember those days of unit boundaries.  I think we had to submit for anything outside 60km or thereabouts (Gagetown/Armd School direction back years ago).  Heck, I remember the days of having sign-out books in the shacks and having to sign out to go to the CANEX or into Freddy or something.  It is a 'legacy' thing IMO from the time before the Leave Manual and often still used despite the Leave Manual. 

My current unit, our Sqn Orders say we are 'encouraged' to let our Crew Commanders know where we will be on normal weekend leave/days off, however we are not required to.  In the event I am on "standby", we have specific rules/report times for that and (1) I know about it before hand (2) I am not able to submit leave during that time and (3) I have distance limitations I am subject to for travel while on standby.

 

[George Wallace]

A lot of that changed when the Leave Policy Manual came out.  But I remember those days of unit boundaries.  I think we had to submit for anything about 60km or thereabouts (Gagetown/Armd School direction back years ago).

Every Base/Bde/Unit had their own "radius" set up to ensure a reasonable response to a "Recall".  Petawawa's for example extended to Ottawa, but not quite to Kingston/Trenton.

 

[Lumber]

A lot of that changed when the Leave Policy Manual came out.  But I remember those days of unit boundaries.  I think we had to submit for anything about 60km or thereabouts (Gagetown/Armd School direction back years ago).

There is a MARLANTORD complete with maps that outlines the geographic areas that your are allowed to live in surrounding Halifax, Trenton, and St. John's, NFLD. You need permission to live outside of this area, but it doesn't say anything about leaving this area on weekends/evenings.

Also this just be tradition and not legal, but in the navy, everytime you leave work you are considered to be going "on leave". Work doesn't "start" at 0750, "leave expires" at 0750.

 

[dapaterson]

I was also under this impression for the past 9 years. Even at RMC we were told that if we were driving home for the weekend, we were to have a leave pass in case something happened to us while we were out of area. We were told (and I've been told many times since), that if I'm injured while travelling out of area without a leave pass, I may not be covered. But having read CF Leave Policy Manual section 2.1.04 - "Weekends and Holidays", I'm wondering were this widespread misconception came from. Is there another reference somewhere? There is nothing in the MARLANTORDs..

There are many things done a certain way because they've always been done that way, and not becuase there's any order or direction to do them that way.

I look forward to dinosaur heads exploding when leave becomes an electronic transaction with no paper, just an automated email to a supervisor saying "Bloggins has requested leave.  Click here to approve, here to reject."

 

[dapaterson]

There is a MARLANTORD complete with maps that outlines the geographic areas that your are allowed to live in surrounding Halifax, Trenton, and St. John's, NFLD. You need permission to live outside of this area, but it doesn't say anything about leaving this area on weekends/evenings.

That's tied to benefits - if you're on the wrong side of the line, there's no entitlement to PLD, for example.  All those area maps are available from DGCB, as well.

 

[George Wallace]

A lot of that changed when the Leave Policy Manual came out.  But I remember those days of unit boundaries.  I think we had to submit for anything outside 60km or thereabouts (Gagetown/Armd School direction back years ago).  Heck, I remember the days of having sign-out books in the shacks and having to sign out to go to the CANEX or into Freddy or something.  It is a 'legacy' thing IMO from the time before the Leave Manual and often still used despite the Leave Manual. 

My current unit, our Sqn Orders say we are 'encouraged' to let our Crew Commanders know where we will be on normal weekend leave/days off, however we are not required to.  In the event I am on "standby", we have specific rules/report times for that and (1) I know about it before hand (2) I am not able to submit leave during that time and (3) I have distance limitations I am subject to for travel while on standby.

Actually, I would say it is a "Pers Management System" that supervisors have used for years to ensure they know where all their people are at all times, not just when they are on "standby".  Just because someone has not put it into 'black and white' in a 'printed form' does not make it an invalid procedure to keep track of your pers.  If the "Leave Manual" does not state that this is to be done, does not make it wrong.  It is after all just a 'Guide' to ensure that Leave Records and their associated fiscal policies are followed.  When it comes to a Unit's Alert Recall Policies, the Leave Manual is not as relevant as the Barrackroom Lawyers may believe.  A CAF member does not have the luxury of saying they will not respond to a Recall to Duty, especially in an Emergency.

 

[Ostrozac]

And to further complicate things, the geographical boundaries of some bases/garrisons (the boundaries within which members are directed to live) prevent any kind of quick return to duty for some people at some times of day.

Kingston allows personnel to live on Wolfe Island -- but the ferry isn't 24/7. If you live on Wolfe Island (which is within the geographical boundaries of the base), then you aren't coming in at 300 AM. Period. Unless you own a boat, or a hovercraft in the winter.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

There are many things done a certain way because they've always been done that way, and not becuase there's any order or direction to do them that way.

I look forward to dinosaur heads exploding when leave becomes an electronic transaction with no paper, just an automated email to a supervisor saying "Bloggins has requested leave.  Click here to approve, here to reject."

I find it quite amusing that some people in my office still have a CF 100 pdf that they fill out when all you need to do is go in to Monitor Mass, select the dates you plan on making a leave pass for, then create the leave pass. You can fill in/modify all the details necessay (type of days, etc) and even add notes and comments for that "remarks/authority" section (I usually put in my licence plate if I will be driving somewhere)! 

It is then entered electronically and can be accessed by those that use Monitor Mass in the unit. I still have to print it out so it can get signed by both recommended and approval pers then sent to the OR for processing but I imagine in the future, an email will do.

Now, to find someone that knows all about the forms you can fill out automatically with Monitor Mass (PEN form anyone?)....

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Of course people have to respond to a recall if they actually receive it.  But I am not 'required' to provide my whereabouts to my CofC on weekends I am not on duty. 

Going 'on leave'; by putting in a leave pass, a mbr is also indicating the phone number and address they should be able to be contacted at while on leave for the event they are recalled.  However the following applies:

From the QR & Os:

16.01 - WITHHOLDING OF AND RECALL FROM LEAVE

(1) Leave may be withheld from an officer or non-commissioned member only when there is a military requirement to do so.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member on leave may be recalled to duty only:
a.because of imperative military requirements; and
b.when the member's commanding officer personally directs the member's return to duty.

From the Leave Policy Manual

1.1.11 Imperative military requirements

Imperative military requirements mean a situation or circumstance that precludes a CF member from taking leave or permits a CO to recall a member from leave.

IMR include, but are not limited to:
•participating in an operational deployment or major military exercise;
•participating in an unforecasted tasking;
•attending a career course;
•attending a court martial; or
•posting or attached posting (including any action related to it, such as HHT, out-clearances, travelling time, Special Leave (Relocation))

IMR do not include:
•recalling a member from sick leave to take annual leave;
•recalling a member from LWOP to take annual leave;
•recalling a member from leave for an annual medical/dental exam; or
•recalling a member for performing routine personal administrative issues such as, but not limited to, PER interviews, testing or parades.


However, if I am not required to submit a leave pass to go to Toronto for the weekend (which I am not)  and am staying at the Hotel of Happiness while there (and no requirement to tell my CofC I am at the HoH) and "don't have my cell phone ringer turned on" (why would I, I am not on duty or standby until Monday morning at 0730 IAW established normal duty hours published by the CO), then what exactly is the expectation of the mbr? 

It is 'to return to work NLT 0730 Monday morning' or to call in as soon as they become aware of a recall.