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Lebanon (Superthread)

warspite said:
Does a popular uprising count as a coup...?

From Wikipedia

A coup d’État (pronounced /ku de'ta/), or simply coup, is the sudden overthrow of a government through unconstitutional means by a part of the state establishment — mostly replacing just the high-level figures. It is also an example of political engineering. It may or may not be violent in nature. It is different from a revolution, which is staged by a larger group and radically changes the political system. The term is French for "a (sudden) blow (or strike) to a state" (literally, coup, hit, and État, state, always written with a capital É in this meaning). The term coup can also be used in a casual sense to mean a gain in advantage of one nation or entity over another; e.g. an intelligence coup. By analogy, the term is also applied to corporations, etc; e.g. a boardroom coup.

Since the unsuccessful coup attempts of Wolfgang Kapp in 1920, and of Adolf Hitler in 1923, the German word "Putsch" (originally coined with the Züriputsch of 1839) is often used also, even in French (such as the putsch of November 8, 1942 and the putsch of April 21, 1961, both in Algiers) and Russian (August Putsch in 1991), while the direct German translation is Staatsstreich.

Tactically, a coup usually involves control of some active portion of the military while neutralizing the remainder of a country's armed services. This active group captures or expels leaders, seizes physical control of important government offices, means of communication, and the physical infrastructure, such as streets and power plants. The coup succeeds if its opponents fail to dislodge the plotters, allowing them to consolidate their position, obtain the surrender or acquiescence of the populace and surviving armed forces, and claim legitimacy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup

Well, it can happen IMO. A few well thought out attacks through the country while this is happining...hmmm.
 
I wouldnt call the Hizbollah mob as a popular uprising, its more like the minority trying to intimidate the majority population [christians/sunni's]. Hizbollah wants to take over the government they are supported by Syria and Iran. I doubt that Israel is going to stand by as hizbollah takes over Lebanon. UNIFIL is in a very dangerous position right now because Lebanon can explode into civil war at any time.
 
Hizbollah is a popular uprising?
I don't think so.  Hizbollah operates at the pleasure of Syria and Iran
Syria was not happy at all when the Lebanese gov't asked them to leave the country.  The political assasinations that have happened since then are all against politicians who have been vocal in their opposition to Syrian involvment in Lebanese affairs.
After the fight against Israel, hezbollah was dolling out reconstruction $$$ to the peasant masses - where do you think that load of cash came from? - Petrocash - all in nice new US$ currency.
 
I think debating whether current situation in Lebanon constitute a coupe is useless. We all know the fact of what is happening on the ground. Hezbollah Shia'as and Christian Militias supporting the ex-exiled president Michele Aoun with the green light from Syria and Iran are attempting to "Democratically" through fully legitimate protests to overthrow the current "Democratically" elected Lebanese govt.

Obviously, the parties involved are fully aware that in Lebanon especially, you can't have protests and civil disobedience without the end result being sectarian clashes.

Israel in my opinion will not dare to involve itself in another dirty war, especially one that will likely turn into a civil war like Iraq today.

In the short term ladies & gents, for the first time in their history, the Shia'as fanatics will finally have control over the region from the Gulf to the Sea. (Just to add, the Jordanians and the Saudis are already s***ing in their pants)
 
Israels dirty war? Its not all Israel's doing. At least they dont kidnapp and behead people!

I will admit it is a civil war in Iraq, so we can agree on that.

Wes
 
Wes,

For the most part, all countries in the middle east have contributed to the godawful mess that we (you) are in right now.  Plenty of blame to go around - - when we should be looking for solutions instead of guilty bastards........ IMHO
 
Time for the next round?
"War has started" Hezbollah leader says

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/08/lebanon.hezbollah/index.html

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Gunfire broke out in downtown Beirut Thursday after Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said recent government actions amount to "a declaration of open war."

"Just in the past few minutes ... things have gotten a lot worse," CNN's Cal Perry reported from downtown Beirut. The sound of gunfire and rocket-propelled grenades could be heard throughout his live reports.

Perry, who took cover with the Lebanese army, said government forces have not yet reacted to the violence.

The violence appeared limited to Shiite and Sunni neighborhoods in the capital, near CNN's Beirut bureau. There were no reports of violence in Beirut's Christian neighborhoods.  Watch Perry call in through gunfire »

The Lebanese army, which is charged with trying to keep peace in the capital, is in a precarious position, Perry explained.

"When you're talking about this much gunfire, when you're talking about RPG fire, it's absolutely ludicrous to think that the army will put themselves between these two factions," he said.

Video of the scene showed tanks and armored personnel carriers moving through empty streets past shuttered stores.

Witnesses and journalists described a long line of cars on the main road leading out of Beirut after violence broke out, but Perry later said he and his cameraman drove past restaurants full of customers calmly enjoying their meals.

The violence erupted shortly after Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said the government's attempts to halt Hezbollah's use of a telecommunications system amounts to "a declaration of open war."

"We believe the war has started and we believe that we have the right to defend ourselves," Nasrallah said in a televised speech. "We will cut the hand that will reach out to the weapons of the resistance no matter if it comes from the inside or the outside."

At the same time, Nasrallah called for dialogue, saying, "We are ready, whoever wants a compromise, we are here and ready."

"Those who have taken decisions leading to war, let them withdraw their decisions and there would be no war," he said.

"Am I declaring war? Not at all. I am declaring oppression and self-defense."

Lebanese parliamentary majority leader Saad Hariri on Thursday blamed Hezbollah's leader for "starting a new round of horror," and called on the army to intervene.

"Beirut is under siege -- its airport, downtown, center, the roads leading to the city are all under siege," said Hariri, the son of the late former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

Lebanese Communications Minister Marwan Hamadi said Nasrallah's speech "is a direct threat of assassinating us."

"We are not scared of the threat," Hamadi told al-Arabiya. " 'Cutting off the hands' is a direct threat of assassination.

"He says it is a new phase; we say it is a new phase, too. We are determined to keep what is left of the Lebanese government."

Many Lebanese politicians who have opposed Syria's influence in their country have been assassinated in recent years, including former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and four members of parliament.

The latest tensions between Lebanon's U.S.-backed government and Hezbollah were sparked Monday when the government sacked airport security chief Brig. Gen. Wafik Shoukeir.  Watch what touched off the fighting »

The government believes Hezbollah was using the equipment to keep tabs on the movement of its opponents in the government.

Nasrallah defended Hezbollah's use of the monitoring equipment, saying it is the right of "any militia during war."

"This wired network is the most important weapon in the battle," he said.

Nasrallah accused the government of trying to make the Beirut airport "a base for the CIA, FBI and the Mossad," the Israeli secret police.

"That's why they wanted to suspend Brig. Gen. Wafik Shoukeir. ... They want to bring a loyal subject that will serve them at the airport."

In a rare display of anger toward Hezbollah, the highest Sunni Muslim spiritual authority in Lebanon accused the group of taking advantage of a labor strike on Wednesday by using it as a political opportunity, and of fomenting violence in Beirut.

The strike quickly escalated into a flash point over Lebanon's 17-month-old political crisis.

Hezbollah supporters continue to block all the roads leading to Beirut's airport, forcing the cancellation of nearly all flights. The airport is strategic for Lebanon, which is wedged between Syria and Israel, because it is the only way in and out of the country for many people.  Watch soldiers, burned cars in streets »

There were reports of clashes and gunfire in the Bekaa Valley overnight and Thursday morning.

Hezbollah is a Shiite militant group, backed by Syria and Iran, with political representation in Lebanon's government.

Members of Lebanon's other major Shiite party, Amal, also participated in Wednesday's strike.

Lebanon's political crisis began in late 2006, when Hezbollah pulled several ministers out of the government of U.S.-backed Prime Minister Fouad Siniora in an effort to destabilize his government.

The move happened as Siniora's government voted to support an international tribunal to investigate the 2005 killing of Hariri, which U.N. investigators have linked to Syria.

The country has been without a president since Emile Lahoud -- who was pro-Syrian -- left office after his term ended in November and parliament was unable to agree on a replacement.

In his speech, Nasrallah argued that Hezbollah's telecommunications system is a legal weapon under the Taif Agreement, which ended Lebanon's civil war in 1989.

That agreement called for the disarmament of all militias except for Hezbollah because of its role as a resistance group against the Israeli occupation, which ended in 2000.

Hezbollah sees the Lebanese government's ban of its communication system as a pretext for arresting its members. Nasrallah said the secure line of communication allowed Hezbollah to thwart Israeli forces during the 36-day war in 2006.

"As a resistance we don't have a big budget like the United States and Israel," Nasrallah said. "When we need to face them and their high technology, we need to have the simplest means of networking."

Midget
 
Who needs a democratic election when you can win by assassination, ironic as I believe the term came from an area in Syria/Lebanon
 
PM urges Lebanese army to halt Hezbollah 'coup'


BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Prime Minister Fouad Siniora accused Hezbollah of trying to stage a "militant coup d'etat" on Saturday in his first public comments since violence began three days ago in Beirut.

He also called for the army to intervene after Hezbollah militants took control of the Lebanese capital's western suburbs.

"I call on it once again to impose security on all, in all areas, deter the gunmen and immediately remove them from the street ... to restore normal life," Siniora said, according to The Associated Press.

The Lebanese army did not join the battles that erupted this week. Taking sides could throw the military -- with its own political factions -- into disarray.

Soldiers instead effectively negotiated a surrender of pro-government positions, Lebanese Internal Security Forces and Western military observers said.

Siniora spoke after two person was killed and two were wounded in a drive-by shooting at a funeral procession in the Lebanese capital, shattering the relative calm in the city following the previous days' violence.

The funeral took place in Tariq Jdeidah, a Sunni Muslim neighborhood in Beirut, witnesses said.

Also, clashes between pro- and anti-government forces in the northern coastal city of Tripoli left one person dead and five wounded Saturday, the ISF said.

"We thought the threat our country was from our historic enemy Israel. But recent experience now shows that our homes and our democracy is being held hostage by our own brothers, who want to create coup and terror," Siniora said in a televised address.

He was referring to the Hezbollah-Israeli war in the summer of 2007, during which the Lebanese government supported the Shiite political party and militia backed by Syria and Iran.

Siniora has been hiding in his government headquarters protected by Lebanese troops after Hezbollah and its allies swept through the Muslim sector of the capital.

"We can no longer accept that Hezbollah and its weapons be kept like this. The Lebanese can no longer continue to accept this situation," he said in a nationally televised addressed.

"Hezbollah must realize that the force of arms will not intimidate us or make us retreat from our position."

Saturday's deaths brought the number of people killed since the violence broke out Wednesday to 24, the ISF said. Ninety-three people have been wounded in the same period.

Hezbollah militants had set up checkpoints in western Beirut a day after dealing a major blow to the U.S.-backed government.

Militia members, armed with rifles and rocket-propelled grenades, patrolled the streets after forcing pro-government forces from the capital's Sunni Muslim neighborhoods. Hezbollah is a Shiite Muslim militant group backed by Iran and Syria.

The relative calm following three days of clashes put at least a temporary hold on the worst sectarian violence since the end of the country's civil war in 1991.

Friday's attacks were also described as a "coup" by Druze leader Walid Jumblatt, a part of the March 14 pro-government coalition.

Jumblatt's coalition called the takeover an effort to "bring Syria back to Lebanon" and extend Iran's reach to the Mediterranean.

Jumblatt said the government was "now at the end of a gun barrel" and expected the "conditions for surrender will be offered sooner or later."

"I think ... it's a coup," he said. "The Lebanese army is in total paralysis."

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Hezbollah leaders of trying to "protect their state within a state."

"Hezbollah has exploited its allies and demonstrated its contempt for its fellow Lebanese," she said. "No one has the right to deprive Lebanese citizens of their political and economic freedom, their right to move freely within their country or their sense of safety and security."

Hezbollah leaders did not make public statements Friday.

With pro-government gunmen out of the way, fighting in the capital eased a bit Friday after two days of intense gun battles echoing through Beirut's streets.

Two pro-government TV stations were shut down -- and the building of one, Future TV, was soon on fire.  Watch the TV station burn »

Nadim Mounla, the head of Future TV, said Hezbollah had sent a "clear message" that it would destroy the stations.

The building housing offices of a newspaper was set on fire as well. It and the two TV stations are owned by the prominent Hariri family, leading supporters of the government.

Syria and Iran support Hezbollah, and Syrian troops occupied Lebanon from 1990 until 2006.

Iran said Friday that "U.S.-Israel adventurism" was the "main cause for lingering crisis and instability" in Lebanon.

State-run news agency IRNA, citing Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini, added that "Iran's stand on Lebanon has always been based on non-interference in a matter that is entirely related to the Lebanese nation, alone."

Lebanon's elected, pro-Western government has long been locked in a power struggle with Hezbollah, which fought a 34-day war with Israel in 2006.

Earlier this week, the government demanded Hezbollah shutter its telecommunications operations, which Hezbollah called an act of war.

The government also fired the chief of security at the Beirut airport amid a probe of allegations that Hezbollah had installed cameras and other monitoring equipment there to spy on political opponents.

Saad Hariri, the leader of the government's bloc in parliament, is the son of the late former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, whose 2005 assassination sparked protests that brought the current government to power and led to the withdrawal of Syrian troops.

Since then, dynamics in Lebanon have been reshaped by the war between Hezbollah and Israel, and by the ongoing power struggle between Hezbollah and the government.
 
Al Qaeda has called upon its operatives to go to Lebanon to defend the Sunni community. :eek:
 
"We thought the threat our country was from our historic enemy Israel. But recent experience now shows that our homes and our democracy is being held hostage by our own brothers, who want to create coup and terror," Siniora said in a televised address.

Lay down with a dog, you're going to get fleas.

I think maybe it's time that Canadian/ Lebanese/ Canadian citizens, with the interest in staying there, took up arms and forced out the terrorists. Either that, or abandon it for good and don't keep going back. Pick a country and stay there.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Al Qaeda has called upon its operatives to go to Lebanon to defend the Sunni community. :eek:


- This is working out even better than I thought...

8)
 
Well,  from a personal perspective, I certainly hope that the Canadian govt does not get suckered (again) into chartering boats & planes for ersatz Canadian citzens who want to scramble out of the gun sights AGAIN !!!

If you throw yourself in front of a train once, I'll save you,
If you do it again, I'll save you BUT
If you do it again, I WILL ensure that you won't do it another time...

Time for a bunch of citzenships to be revoked... IMHO!
 
Nay, do it the Canadian way, tell them that a sealift will start as soon as the environmetal reviews are complete, as well as ensuring all relevent First Nations are consulted. Also inform them that help will be on the way as soon as they find a carbon neutral vessel to charter.
 
I wonder how the Druze fit into all of this; there are hundreds of thousands of Druze in both Israel and Lebanon. Israeli Druze serve in the army, do Lebanese Druze serve in that country's army? From what I've read, the Druze are excellent soldiers but what happens when they are torn between national and religious loyalties or obligations? What a mess!

As far as the Lebanese-"Canadians" are concerned, they've made their choice and they can live with it. In 2006 they came back to Canada just long enough to raise funds for Hezbollah and then headed back to their own country. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...
 
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-un-un-lebanon-hariri,1,3927951.story


UN chief expects tribunal to prosecute suspects in Hariri killing to start March 1
By Associated Press
4:15 PM PST, November 28, 2008
UNITED NATIONS (AP) _
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Friday he expects the international tribunal that will prosecute suspects in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri to start operating on March 1, 2009.

But in a report to the U.N. Security Council, Ban said his final decision on a starting date will be influenced by the response to his appeal for additional funding for the tribunal's operation.

"It is my belief that the impending start of the special tribunal will send a strong signal that the government of Lebanon and the United Nations remain committed to ending impunity in Lebanon," he said.

Nobody has been charged in the Feb. 14, 2005 truck bombing in Beirut that killed Hariri and 22 others, though four pro-Syrian Lebanese generals have been under arrest for three years for alleged involvement in the murders.

The first U.N. chief investigator, Germany's Detlev Mehlis, said the plot's complexity suggested that Syrian and Lebanese intelligence services had a role. Syria has denied involvement but was forced to withdraw its troops from Lebanon, ending a 29-year presence.
 
Richie said:
I wonder how the Druze fit into all of this; there are hundreds of thousands of Druze in both Israel and Lebanon. Israeli Druze serve in the army, do Lebanese Druze serve in that country's army? From what I've read, the Druze are excellent soldiers but what happens when they are torn between national and religious loyalties or obligations? What a mess!

As far as the Lebanese-"Canadians" are concerned, they've made their choice and they can live with it. In 2006 they came back to Canada just long enough to raise funds for Hezbollah and then headed back to their own country. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...

When Hezbollah stormed central Beirut recently, they meet minimal resistance, but in the hills outside which are a Druze stronghold, they got into pitched battles which they lost and had to withdraw without being able to gain anything from the Druze. Also apparently, Druze that had been serving with Hezbollah deserted and came back to defend their villages from them.
 
Martyrdom beckons Lebanese teen, but she really wants to direct
Borzou Daragahi  Los Angeles Times
13 January 2009
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-hiba13-2009jan13,0,1944299.story


Hiba, 18, says she is bored with kids her age. Rather than shop, gossip and chitchat about clothes and makeup, she'd rather spend a free afternoon at the swimming pool or surfing the Web for news of the world.
Aspiring filmmaker Hiba Qassir is about to graduate from a Hezbollah-backed high school. She loves movies, but would give up her career dream if offered the chance to be a suicide bomber.


Reporting from Tyre, Lebanon -- Hiba Qassir dreams of making movies. She's ambitious and precocious enough. At 18, she's taught herself how to edit video and sound on a computer, and has her sights set on directing gripping social and psychological dramas.

But if the movie business doesn't work out, that's OK. She has other dreams: perhaps to become a cop or a pilot. Or maybe a suicide bomber.

"Martyrdom is the shortest way to heaven, and the history of martyrdom is not like any history," Hiba says. "It made victory. We wouldn't have achieved victory without these martyrdoms.".........

More at Link
 
Ahhhh radical Islam....

Children should be dreaming of sugar plumbs & faeries...
When babes are dreaming of becoming martyrs & doing harm with bombs - you know that the Islamic faith has taken a wrong turn
 
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