Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

[Remius]

It is electorally not legitimate because we do not use a popular vote system, so total popular vote is electorally irrelevant. As well, if political parties do not campaign on forming a coalition, then I submit they have lied to the public in order to gain power and the GG should not allow them to form a government. Doing that (and exactly what the NDP and Liberals have done) is a sneaky bait and switch on the electorate and should have forced everyone back to the polls to decide if that's what they want.

If it does not violate electoral laws or how our constitutional Westminster style of government works then it it is all still legitimate. We also don’t use a coloured pine cone system either. It does not mean what we currently have is illegitimate because we don’t use another different system.

Parties are in no way beholden to promises they did not make. Promises made and elected on certainly give them mandates to do and effect their plans. How they decide to get the confidence of the house using the rules as written but sorely misunderstood by the electorate is not in question nor should it be. We have a system that says they can still attempt to form government if the party with the most seats cannot. Coalitions are not illegal nor are they forbidden.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The reason why people think politicians are dishonest is because they equivocate so much. Ironically, they equivocate because they are trying to be honest about their positions without offending anyone, thus trying not to lie. This is why some people like politicians who speak decisively, even though what they are saying is complete BS.

Nuanced explanation =/= tight sound bite or political zinger/bumper sticker

 

[Brad Sallows]

Once again, input legitimacy (the "rules") and output legitimacy (perception of fairness) raise their different heads. No point talking about legitimacy without qualifying which type it is.

 

[ArmyRick]

You gotta love moments like this

 

[Halifax Tar]

You gotta love moments like this

I love seeing him booed as much as the next guy, but they don't show how much they cheered for him too when he belched out his mountains of empty platitudes that played into their emotions.

 

[Quirky]

How is that promise of clean drinking water going? Oh yeah...too hard...more work needs to be done.

 

[PuckChaser]

How is that promise of clean drinking water going? Oh yeah...too hard...more work needs to be done.

The water doesn't clean itself?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The water doesn't clean itself?

It does when you build infrastructure to clean it. Something which successive governments for the past century have failed to do.

Then again, when your mouth writes a cheque your party doesn't want to cash because there's no votes there.....

 

[ArmyRick]

It does when you build infrastructure to clean it. Something which successive governments for the past century have failed to do.

Then again, when your mouth writes a cheque your party doesn't want to cash because there's no votes there.....

You are correct however I want to emphasize the term "former" governments vs the current government who has championed truth and reconciliation so much...

 

[Eaglelord17]

It does when you build infrastructure to clean it. Something which successive governments for the past century have failed to do.

Then again, when your mouth writes a cheque your party doesn't want to cash because there's no votes there.....

There are plenty of cases where they built the infrastructure and the natives have failed to keep it running as well. To pretend its as simple as putting in a water plant is naive for all involved.

Considering no one in Canada is guaranteed clean drinking water, we all pay for it, either directly if your more rural and need to put in a well, or indirectly though your municipal taxes which is then spent on water treatment plants, why should they be provided free drinking water? (Exemptions applies to those whose water was poisoned by government inaction such as grassy meadows)

 

[rmc_wannabe]

You are correct however I want to emphasize the term "former" governments vs the current government who has championed truth and reconciliation so much...

My bottom sentence shared that exact sentiment

 

[rmc_wannabe]

There are plenty of cases where they built the infrastructure and the natives have failed to keep it running as well. To pretend its as simple as putting in a water plant is naive for all involved.

Considering no one in Canada is guaranteed clean drinking water, we all pay for it, either directly if your more rural and need to put in a well, or indirectly though your municipal taxes which is then spent on water treatment plants, why should they be provided free drinking water? (Exemptions applies to those whose water was poisoned by government inaction such as grassy meadows)

Well there's this Parliamentary Act:

Safe Drinking Water For First Nation's Act (2013)

 

[Halifax Tar]

Neat-o little article

Is it majority or bust for Poilievre's Conservatives? - The Hub

With the two progressive parties working so closely together, the Conservatives are starting to worry that winning the most seats in the next election won't be enough to give them a chance to govern. The Liberals and NDP will have a constitutional right to test the confidence of the House and...

thehub.ca

 

[brihard]

Neat-o little article

Is it majority or bust for Poilievre's Conservatives? - The Hub

With the two progressive parties working so closely together, the Conservatives are starting to worry that winning the most seats in the next election won't be enough to give them a chance to govern. The Liberals and NDP will have a constitutional right to test the confidence of the House and...

thehub.ca

Elections are expensive. In a hypothetical next government where the CPC take a minority, likely the LPC would probably jus take it vote by vote and force the CPC to throw them some bones to get legislation through, similar to what NDP are doing now but without the long term stability. They would probably see significant longer-term political hazard in forcing a minority coalition, even though that’s constitutionally legitimate.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Elections are expensive. In a hypothetical next government where the CPC take a minority, likely the LPC would probably jus take it vote by vote and force the CPC to throw them some bones to get legislation through, similar to what NDP are doing now but without the long term stability. They would probably see significant longer-term political hazard in forcing a minority coalition, even though that’s constitutionally legitimate.

If a Lib/NDP coalition can be formed to keep the CPC from forming a Gov that's the card I think we will see the LPC play.

A CPC minority will not last long. And when the Libs brought down Harper's, it went very poorly for the LPC. And I think the LPC remembers that. Mind you Ignatieff was at the LPC helm and he was a complete and total dud. I remember talk of the LPC being reduced to non official party status.

The only way I see the CPC being able to form a Gov is with a majority.

 

[brihard]

If a Lib/NDP coalition can be formed to keep the CPC from forming a Gov that's the card I think we will see the LPC play.

A CPC minority will not last long. And when the Libs brought down Harper's, it went very poorly for the LPC. And I think the LPC remembers that. Mind you Ignatieff was at the LPC helm and he was a complete and total dud. I remember talk of the LPC being reduced to non official party status.

The only way I see the CPC being able to form a Gov is with a majority.

You may be right, but I don’t think so on this. Being “the party that did a coalition” would probably be electorally damaging on a next-election-and-henceforth basis. It would marry the party much more firmly to the NDP in the eyes of many voters. I think the LPC see themselves, and want to be seen by voters, as occupying the center. That’s their zone of both comfort and electoral success. I think a coalition lasting for one term would be short term gain but at the expense of fundamentally shifting our political landscape in a way that I don’t think would favour them. Among the swing voters in the center who can vote either blue or red, and who determine elections, I suspect a number would crystallize their support to the CPC for the foreseeable future were the LPC to attempt this course of action.

I could of course be completely wrong; I often am.

 

[Fabius]

There are plenty of cases where they built the infrastructure and the natives have failed to keep it running as well. To pretend its as simple as putting in a water plant is naive for all involved.

Considering no one in Canada is guaranteed clean drinking water, we all pay for it, either directly if your more rural and need to put in a well, or indirectly though your municipal taxes which is then spent on water treatment plants, why should they be provided free drinking water? (Exemptions applies to those whose water was poisoned by government inaction such as grassy meadows)

Well there's this Parliamentary Act:

Safe Drinking Water For First Nation's Act (2013)

That Act was repealed on June 22 2022 and is no longer in force.
To date nothing has replaced it as negotiations are continuing.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You may be right, but I don’t think so on this. Being “the party that did a coalition” would probably be electorally damaging on a next-election-and-henceforth basis. It would marry the party much more firmly to the NDP in the eyes of many voters. I think the LPC see themselves, and want to be seen by voters, as occupying the center. That’s their zone of both comfort and electoral success. I think a coalition lasting for one term would be short term gain but at the expense of fundamentally shifting our political landscape in a way that I don’t think would favour them. Among the swing voters in the center who can vote either blue or red, and who determine elections, I suspect a number would crystallize their support to the CPC for the foreseeable future were the LPC to attempt this course of action.

I could of course be completely wrong; I often am.

That's an interesting observation. I tend to believe the LPC has and wants to move left. I think they want to swallow up the NDP.

I think you're right though, it would probably change our electoral landscape for a long time.

Either way out next Fed election is shaping up to an interesting matter, as far as Canadian elections go.

 

[Remius]

You may be right, but I don’t think so on this. Being “the party that did a coalition” would probably be electorally damaging on a next-election-and-henceforth basis. It would marry the party much more firmly to the NDP in the eyes of many voters. I think the LPC see themselves, and want to be seen by voters, as occupying the center. That’s their zone of both comfort and electoral success. I think a coalition lasting for one term would be short term gain but at the expense of fundamentally shifting our political landscape in a way that I don’t think would favour them. Among the swing voters in the center who can vote either blue or red, and who determine elections, I suspect a number would crystallize their support to the CPC for the foreseeable future were the LPC to attempt this course of action.

I could of course be completely wrong; I often am.

Something like that would certainly motivate some people to look for something more in the centre. Disaffected liberal and conservative centrists could end up meeting in the middle to form a new party. But that is a generational project that would take time to become viable.

We may just see more supply and support arrangements on the left. The right has no flexibility however in that regard. I know some will point to the Bloc but that in my mind is wishful thinking.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Something like that would certainly motivate some people to look for something more in the centre. Disaffected liberal and conservative centrists could end up meeting in the middle to form a new party. But that is a generational project that would take time to become viable.

Not just that but eastern Canadian are awful for voting one way always, everything else bedamned because reasons...

A new party wouldn't fly in my mind. But a real centrist in command of the LPC or CPC could really run away with things. Especially if they could ignore the screaming weenies on the extremes of both sides.

We may just see more supply and support arrangements on the left. The right has no flexibility however in that regard. I know some will point to the Bloc but that in my mind is wishful thinking.

I predict we continue with an LPC propped up by the NDP.