Married but paying for rations while on course.

[DAA]

Everything aside, I find it rather intriguing that anyone would walk away from a job which has not only "job security" but a guaranteed raise over the first two years where you start at $33K and then reach $48K.  A potential two year hiatus and then promoted to "Cpl", followed by another 4 consecutive years of guaranteed raises, ending in an annual salary of $58K or more.

 

[td_2013]

Everything aside, I find it rather intriguing that anyone would walk away from a job which has not only "job security" but a guaranteed raise over the first two years where you start at $33K and then reach $48K.  A potential two year hiatus and then promoted to "Cpl", followed by another 4 consecutive years of guaranteed raises, ending in an annual salary of $58K or more.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

but I think they should have it set up different, and definitely not be $500+ / month for ONE person to eat.... and the lodging he is yes exempt from... but that is like $92/month??? 

It is a lot of money when compared to the cost of purchasing groceries, but IIRC it does also include the rest of the stuff that goes into the meal itself; purchasing/preping the food, as well as the remainder of overhead costs associated with the work needed to make all those meals happen.

 

[technophile]

McDonald's has overhead too.

It bothers me when the mess hall adds overhead costs such as wages etc. into their operating budget.  Last I heard, we were paid by Ottawa ( including military cooks) My unit doesn't add the pay of soldiers to the annual budget.  Another thing that gets my goat regarding the mess hall is that they argue soldiers de-linking and allowing "pay as you go " meals takes away their ability to prepare enough food.

Again, McDonald's doesn't know how many people are coming for lunch, and they seem to manage just fine. 

A full meal plan in the mess hall IMHO should cost no more than $250 per month. 

PS... ever look at what a box lunch costs ?  The dude who owns the mess hall must be living the high life !

 

[dapaterson]

The mess halls do not set rates for Rations. Treasury Board does.

 

[technophile]

That may be the case.

However a couple years ago the BFoodO gave a fancy powerpoint presentation to members living in explaining why the cost of a ration plan was so high, and why ( at the time ) we couldn't de-link.

It included things such as wages, electricity bills, training , something about they are forced to purchase food items at a higher rate than a restaurant downtown etc etc.

I am not sure anyone in the room bought into the explanation. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Okay but even at home, there are overhead costs to eating.  Electricity/gas/propane costs, you likely have an apt, condo, home etc that you prep and eat your meals in, etc.

I'm not saying I agree with ppl posted prohibited paying at all, don't get me wrong, but I also can see the reality being that fact that there are overhead costs associated with mess halls, and that the requirements for those mess halls is real, and the costs that go along with it...are real as well.

As for de-linking; some ppl can de-link and not have their rooms turn into a shit-pit.  The ones who CAN'T act like they are older than 5 year olds and make hygiene an issue in the SQs are the ones who screw it up for the others.  Commanders have to ensure their ppl can do the tasks they are paid to do, and if Donny the Dummy has 40 pizza boxes and associated critters in his room, well...

 

[td_2013]

It is a lot of money when compared to the cost of purchasing groceries, but IIRC it does also include the rest of the stuff that goes into the meal itself; purchasing/preping the food, as well as the remainder of overhead costs associated with the work needed to make all those meals happen.

I realize this, which is why I do not disagree with the fact... but I do not know how they come up with their numbers..... when making over a grand a month off of TWO recruits... when there are hundreds there.....(BMQ I am talking)...and I was told that out of the staff at bmq...the only meal they have free is lunch... so yeah..awful.. just my opinion like I said before. We do not even spend that much on groceries / month for our family.
But again, it is all worth it in the end which is why hubby is still there and yes I work fulltime and we are going to have it rough even so for the time being that he is in training...  with everything associated to owning our home and raising two kids, such is life... we chose this life, but it is too bad for people that went in with expectations and are now VRing due to this...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

When I was an instructor at CFLRS, the only meal I got for free was lunch when I was the Marching NCO for the course, because I had to eat in the mess with them. 

 

[TCM621]

As for de-linking; some ppl can de-link and not have their rooms turn into a crap-pit.  The ones who CAN'T act like they are older than 5 year olds and make hygiene an issue in the SQs are the ones who screw it up for the others.  Commanders have to ensure their ppl can do the tasks they are paid to do, and if Donny the Dummy has 40 pizza boxes and associated critters in his room, well...

I have never bought into this argument. If some guys start using Hot plates in contravention of Standing Orders, charge them. If guys can't keep their rooms from being shit pits, give them extras then charge them. If the school staff is to lazy to do inspections, then how is that the member's problem?

If you force people to pay 543 dollars a month of shitty food people are going to be pissed. If they can't afford to cook with out me subsidizing it then maybe they should fire some of the civvies they have working there.

Right now what you get for leaving your family because the military makes you is about 70 dollars a month (depending on the shacks) in accommodations. Everyone who is forced to live away from their family for any reason other than TD will now lose money because of this. As it stands right now, my expenses that directly relate to me living away well I wait for my family are 543 for food, 60 for internet, about 40 a month for various incidentals, and on average 40 for cabs to go shopping. That is with me leaving my room to go to Canex or shopping once a week.  That is just under 700 dollars a month. Yes Internet is a but if don't count a phone bill in their to keep in touch with my family and I have to coordinate my move from the other side of Canada, so it is necessary for me. If I was at home I would be paying maybe 100 dollars more in groceries and maybe an extra 100 in gas. That means I lose about 500 dollars every month because I did what the military wants me to.

Now I am making a lot more money than a lot of people in my position and my family is going to be here in 5 weeks, so it isn't that bad. But it is the principle of the thing. The CF is committed to families and their soldiers, or so they keep telling us. Yet they force soldiers to lose money while their budget for contractors and consultants is increased by almost  half a billion (source). it just isn't right. And I know their are people who are in high positions who read these boards. They should know how this affects the troops and how people feel about it.

 

[SentryMAn]

So current;y I am not in the CF, but awaiting an offer(hopefully).  I do have prior experience and will go to trade training directly upon acceptance.  I am married and have a household in my current city.

Would I be posted to a unit fist then sent to course on TD(hopefully) or Posted to the school and subject to R&Q then posted to a unit after graduation?

 

[td_2013]

So current;y I am not in the CF, but awaiting an offer(hopefully).  I do have prior experience and will go to trade training directly upon acceptance.  I am married and have a household in my current city.

Would I be posted to a unit fist then sent to course on TD(hopefully) or Posted to the school and subject to R&Q then posted to a unit after graduation?

You have prior experience in what? and going directly to trade training ... ? meaning you won't need to go to BMQ?
Sorry, your post/question is confusing... in BMQ now everyone (regardless if married / having a mortgage) pays rations... as well as when you do your specific training after BMQ wherever that may be for yourself depending on what you get in for.

 

[SentryMAn]

Prior Military exp, did BMOQ and trade training(partially skilled in LOG) of which I have been given credit for to  "Phase 3".  Re-entering CF and currently merit listed for Log O.  Just curious about my first steps upon re-entery.

I agree, outside looking in, that post is vague and confusing.

 

[TCM621]

Prior Military exp, did BMOQ and trade training(partially skilled in LOG) of which I have been given credit for to  "Phase 3".  Re-entering CF and currently merit listed for Log O.  Just curious about my first steps upon re-entery.

I agree, outside looking in, that post is vague and confusing.

As it stands now (at least as I understand it) you would be paying rations. However, you may be posted on a restricted basis in which case you could move your family. I would definitely ask for clarification, in writing, from CFRC on that.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So current;y I am not in the CF, but awaiting an offer(hopefully).  I do have prior experience and will go to trade training directly upon acceptance.  I am married and have a household in my current city.

Would I be posted to a unit fist then sent to course on TD(hopefully) or Posted to the school and subject to R&Q then posted to a unit after graduation?

Is your current city also a place of duty, have a base nearby?  Is there going to be a significant delay between your swearing in date to your course start date?

If so, you may have a chance at getting posted to the Base BTL (Basic Training List) and given some job/position while awaiting trg.  If you were posted to the BTL, as long as the course isn't over 1 year, you could be Attach Posted and have the AP type benefits.

AKAIK, even if your classification trg was over 1 year, it would be a prohibited posting as you (likely) are at Career Status yet.  I'm not sure what the exact Career Status is for LogO, and don't have a copy of the exact definition (supposedly in CANFORGEN 031/97 according to the BTAGs [Basic Trg List Admin Guide] but is defined in the BTAGS as 'Essentially it equates to completion of regular force basic occupation qualification or three years regular force service.'

No career status = no CFIRP benefits = no cost move.

 

[Kat Stevens]

So will part of the requirements to attend training be added to? 

Minimum rank of_____
MOC qualified QL _____
Able to afford to eat for duration of training

 

[SentryMAn]

Great info provided, I have a base within a 20km drive from me(Gagetown).  In the "new" financial situation the forces find themselves in, to me it makes sense to post me to the local base since I live here now and then once occupationally trained post me where need be.

But I'm fully aware that what makes sense to me, does not in turn make sense to anyone else.  I am willing to go where ever the military needs me and have squared this away with my family.  It would be nice to get a posting here

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[PuckChaser]

As its a weekend, I don't have a copy, but there was a CANLANDGEN sent out this week that ordered the de-linking of rations and quarters immediately. It set out 3 conditions for rations, being full, half rations (20 meals a week) and pay-as-you-go (if available). I didn't see it on here anywhere, but I can post the text on Monday. Seems like a good solution for those not willing to pay $550 a month for food for one person while supporting a family.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Great info provided, I have a base within a 20km drive from me(Gagetown).  In the "new" financial situation the forces find themselves in, to me it makes sense to post me to the local base since I live here now and then once occupationally trained post me where need be.

But I'm fully aware that what makes sense to me, does not in turn make sense to anyone else.  I am willing to go where ever the military needs me and have squared this away with my family.  It would be nice to get a posting here

Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know how it works for ppl in your situation, there may be some info in the BTAGs.  But, maybe your ULO is a good place to ask questions?  They might be able to tell you if there is a possibility of an OJT type position in G-town pending your course start.  :2c:

 

[td_2013]

As its a weekend, I don't have a copy, but there was a CANLANDGEN sent out this week that ordered the de-linking of rations and quarters immediately. It set out 3 conditions for rations, being full, half rations (20 meals a week) and pay-as-you-go (if available). I didn't see it on here anywhere, but I can post the text on Monday. Seems like a good solution for those not willing to pay $550 a month for food for one person while supporting a family.

What would/does this mean? Apologize for sounding dumbfounded but just a newbie wife posting here.... haha

Curious, as hubby is in BMQ right now.

Thx