"MP's or Provost - An Idea on Roles" and "Replace base MP with RCMP"

[leroi]

Future Prodigy,

I did say the search needed to be refined; I did a quicky search for "you" not for me.

Anyway, I responded out of a concern that you might mistake comments given here as CF gospel. That might make it difficult for people to come forward with insightful perspective.

I also wanted to point out that in your original post you seemed to want a "consensus" on the job of MP--and, IMHO, I don't think this would be the place for that. It seems people come here with many points of view that don't always agree--that gives the site a healthy vibrancy.

Good luck in your career choice. It's good that you're rationally exploring options. 

 

[chris_log]

Now that the threads have been merged, I'm going to ask a question.

From my understanding, down in the US they have both MP's/Security Forces/Provo Marshalls for your traditional 'big M little P' and security tasks tasks while there are DoD Police and the various investigative arms (US Army CID, NCIS, USAF OSI) who are civilian employees who engage in the more 'big P' tasks. Am I on the right track here wrt roles (I know this isn't a CF MP question...but I couldn't think of a better place)?

 

[garb811]

I started a previous thread where the answer was simply jurisdiction but other posters have posted a lot about the soldiering side of the coin and i would like to hear more on this. (If i come across disrespectful or overly demanding, I do not mean to. That is one of the problems with internet communication. I am just blunt and to the point)

Your other question was too generic to give an answer which hasn't already been provided.  Same-same for MP and soldiering, there is lots of info already covering many issues related to that.  If you have specific questions that haven't been answered, ask away and we'll do our best to answer them.

Now that the threads have been merged, I'm going to ask a question.

From my understanding, down in the US they have both MP's/Security Forces/Provo Marshalls for your traditional 'big M little P' and security tasks tasks while there are DoD Police and the various investigative arms (US Army CID, NCIS, USAF OSI) who are civilian employees who engage in the more 'big P' tasks. Am I on the right track here wrt roles (I know this isn't a CF MP question...but I couldn't think of a better place)?

Roughly speaking:

Army CID=CFNIS
USAF OSI and NCIS=SIU when it had the serious/sensitive criminal investigation mandate

 

[chris_log]

Army CID=CFNIS
USAF OSI and NCIS=SIU when it had the serious/sensitive criminal investigation mandate

Gotcha. How does the MP/DoD Police system work and how does it compare vis a vis what we have?

 

[KevinB]

Keep in mind down here a lot of Police tasks have been civilianized to free up MP's for Green Army convoy escrot tasks - hence the DoD Police.

 

[Future Prodigy]

Keep in mind down here a lot of Police tasks have been civilianized to free up MP's for Green Army convoy escrot tasks - hence the DoD Police.

Why then do MP's not receive SQ? Med Tech, Combat Eng, Infantry, Artillery, and Armored all do. The recruiter I talked to said this is because they all will see on field action but the MP description under "working environment" says "war fighting" so shouldn't by this criteria, MP's also receive SQ?

This is why I ask in what capacity do MP's serve as soldiers. I can not seem to find the answer elsewhere.

garb811 - I have searched the other threads but can still not find an answer to the above question. The recruiter says one thing  (essentially police whose jurisdiction is military), and then I read multiple answers on this board (some the same as aforementioned definition, some as a hybrid police/soldier).

Edited: due to typo mistake.

 

[chris_log]

Keep in mind down here a lot of Police tasks have been civilianized to free up MP's for Green Army convoy escrot tasks - hence the DoD Police.

Do US MP's/Security Police etc have police powers like Canadian MP's do? If so do they, for lack of a better term, have a paralell system with both military and civilian LE policing DoD property?

Edit: By civvie I mean the DoD Police.

 

[George Wallace]

............ The recruiter I talked to said this is because they all will see on field action but the MP description under "working environment" says "war fighting" so shouldn't by this criteria, MP's also receive SQ?

This is why I ask in what capacity do MP's serve as soldiers. I can not seem to find the answer elsewhere.

garb811 - ............. The recruiter says one thing  (essentially police whose jurisdiction is military), and then I read multiple answers on this board (some the same as aforementioned definition, some as a hybrid police/soldier).

First off; is the Recruiter a MP?  If not, then their perceptions of what a MP does will vary to differing degrees from what they really do, and may in fact be totally wrong.  Take what they say with a grain of salt. 

 

[KevinB]

Do US MP's/Security Police etc have police powers like Canadian MP's do? If so do they, for lack of a better term, have a paralell system with both military and civilian LE policing DoD property?

Edit: By civvie I mean the DoD Police.

They are both Federal Law Enforcement.  Due to the manpower needs of Big Army a lot of the bases have been switched to DoD Police who are civilians in a Federal LE job.  Some other bases still use MP's, Air Force Security Forces, USMC Military Police, and USN Military Police.

In Canada, the Corps of Comissionares... 

 

[chris_log]

They are both Federal Law Enforcement.  Due to the manpower needs of Big Army a lot of the bases have been switched to DoD Police who are civilians in a Federal LE job.  Some other bases still use MP's, Air Force Security Forces, USMC Military Police, and USN Military Police.

In Canada, the Corps of Comissionares... 

Neato, thanks for the help.

 

[Dissident]

Did the last Provost Marshal (Capt Moore) not decree that all MPs would attend SQ? I wonder how many MP RegF members do not have SQ?

In the army reserve, MPs all get SQ. What about ARAF MPs?

 

[dapaterson]

ARAF members will follow the same training progression as Reg F MPs.

 

[garb811]

I-6, thanks, I haven't had contact with DOD police so all I knew was they were at some bases and they were civilians vice service members.  Might be something to consider for places like Moose Jaw, North Bay, Dundurn...

For MP and SQ, not sure of the status of that.  A couple of years ago all MP were being sent through SQ, now, we have guys coming into the Guardhouse who have not, primarily it seems because they need to get as many pers onto basic MP training ASAP.  All MP do attend PLQ(L) though, no matter what the environment of their uniform or the base they are at.

In what capacity do MP's serve as soldiers?  The same as any other trade serves as soldiers, where ever and however the CF needs us.  Are we Police?  Yes.  Are we soldiers?  Yes.  Is our task to close with and destroy the enemy?  No but currently in Afghanistan there are MP mentoring the Afghan Police in conjunction with Infantry pers and this requires them to be combat capable as they are stationed in Afghan Police Sub-Stations in various locations with Inf Pers and they are responsible for their local defence and accompanying the Afghan Police on patrol...

 

[McG]

Keep in mind down here a lot of Police tasks have been civilianized to free up MP's for Green Army convoy escrot tasks - hence the DoD Police.

Why then do MP's not receive SQ?

You are aware than, in stating "down here," Infidel-6 was letting you know that he was speaking about US Army MPs.  Right?

Why then do MP's not receive SQ? Med Tech, Combat Eng, Infantry, Artillery, and Armored all do. The recruiter I talked to said this is because they all will see on field action but the MP description under "working environment" says "war fighting" so shouldn't by this criteria, MP's also receive SQ?

This is why I ask in what capacity do MP's serve as soldiers. I can not seem to find the answer elsewhere.

Also, I too am unfamiliar with the roles of soldiering within the MP trade - in relation to the comment posted by dantheman. I talked to the recruiter and she basically made the job sound like a police career as well. After having read other peoples posts though I understand there is quite a large chunk of soldiering one can do as well. How does this factor into the roles? I am just trying to 'discuss' and broaden my knowledge base, and get a better understanding of what MPs do. I started a previous thread where the answer was simply jurisdiction but other posters have posted a lot about the soldiering side of the coin and i would like to hear more on this.

1.  Combat Engineer is shorted as 'Cbt Engr.'

2.  Something you seem to be overlooking in your quest for information is that MPs are not a hard Army occupation.  You can find them on all bases, supporting all environments (Army, Navy & Air), and in green or blue uniforms.  The location to which an MP is posted/deployed will have an impact on the degree that MP is expected to act as a soldier.

You might be interested in a few excerpts (and an illustration) from the Army's doctrine for MPs.  The following is from B-GL-362-001/FP-001 Military Police,  10 Nov 2000.

Chapter 1, Para 3

The role of Military Police is to provide commanders with an
essential element of command and control, through the conduct of four
functions: Mobility Support, Security, Detention, and Police
Operations.

Chapter 1, Para 5

Military Police assigned to the Army are all soldiers, with a
dual responsibility, that of a soldier policeman. They are professional
police persons and professional soldiers. They participate in operations
through the spectrum of conflict and help the commander in achieving
the mission. Leaders will study doctrine and soldiers will learn and
apply doctrine through tactics and procedures. Together they will fulfil
the duties assigned in a professional manner at all times. All Military
Police will conduct themselves in accordance with the Canadian
Forces Code of Conduct and the Military Police Professional Code of
Conduct.

Chapter 1, Para 7

The Canadian Forces Provost Marshal’s policy dictates that
all Military Police persons employed in police operations possess
peace officer status in accordance with approved training standards.
Some Reserve Force Military Police personnel may be trained to these
standards or be provided equivalencies6 complemented by additional
required training and subsequently selected to occupy positions
requiring peace officer status.

 

[McG]

Why then do MP's not receive SQ?

According to CANFORGEN 101/08 CMP 040/08 031334Z JUN 08, MP are required to complete SQ and PLQ-L.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22558/post-721409.html#msg721409

 

[StudentGrant]

Hi

I tried a few searches but perhaps didn't get the search strings right...

If I recall correctly (not having been in Canada for a good few years) the Military Police handed over some responsibility for policing to civilian police forces a few years back.

Can someone tell me:

    a)    when this was, and

    b)    what was handed over, and what was retained.

TIA

 

[Container]

Im sure some MP's will be in to correct me shortly- but having worked with, and around MP's I dont recall them giving anything over to Civi's. There was a rumour a few years ago but I dont think it turned into anything??

What responsibility specifically?

 

[StudentGrant]

Hi

Thanks - my memory is a bit hazy on this, having only seen something on-line.

My recollection is that there was a move to hand over, for example, patrolling of PMQs, thefts not involving military property, etc. and that the first trial was meant to be somewhere out West, possibly Edmonton?

The context (again, from hazy recollection) was that the civilian police could deal with such matters in a more cost-effective manner, and leave the MPs to deal with issues that were purely military in nature. 

SG

 

[Cdnleaf]

Recommend posting this question to The Canadian Association of Military Police Veterans Forum:  http://www.campvets.ca/

 

[garb811]

Don't bother with CAMPVETS unless you want to tell an old war story...

SG:  What you recall is absolutely false.