New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[RedFive]

Literally take your ideas for the RCMP and throw them in the garbage. We re not starting new deployed maritime units. We re at 50% staffing across operational units. Stop it.

The navy needs to navy. CBSA needs to CBSA. Get with it.

Dump contract. Voila, bodies for Federal Policing.

 

[Booter]

Gross. That’s how they’d get me to retire.

 

[RedFive]

It would take a damn long time. And if the sales pitch to retain members/recruit new ones was come chase gun runners/drug smugglers/human traffickers with high powered boats/trucks/ATVs/UTVs/helicopters/aircraft I'm sure we would do just fine recruiting. Same with a lot of the other stuff we do federally.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It would take a damn long time. And if the sales pitch to retain members/recruit new ones was come chase gun runners/drug smugglers/human traffickers with high powered boats/trucks/ATVs/UTVs/helicopters/aircraft I'm sure we would do just fine recruiting. Same with a lot of the other stuff we do federally.

Turn the RCMP into a Taylor Sheridan show ?

Scicario and Linoness are in my cant sail without collection.

 

[Maxman1]

Hamina is a fully fledged missile boat with anti-ship missiles, light anti-aircraft missiles, a substantial main gun and a full suite of sensors/decoys. This kind of combatant is utterly useless for the Royal Canadian Navy and is a substantial waste of time, effort and money. The Orca's entire purpose is to act as economic training platforms for our personnel, we should be looking to have them be more effective in this role and not be turned into bootleg patrol craft and be removed from said duties. If the Orca's were actually capable of leaving coastal BC, this would have happened already.

I never suggested converting the Orcas into patrol boats, my idea was building new patrol craft.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

View attachment 92250
This was posted on a another thread by cloud cover, what does it exactly mean or have it been discussed with the CCG unions who knows. I wager there will be push back.

It basically sounds like they are adding to the aircraft patrol duties from not just pollution and fisheries, but also to observe, detect smuggling. Unclear if they would add more aircraft, or just add more duties, sensors to the existing ones? It may also mean a strengthened MOU with the RCMP, DND and CCG/DFO to allow closer cooperation.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I never suggested converting the Orcas into patrol boats, my idea was building new patrol craft.

The Orca's are getting on to 20 years old, it would be good to start planning the replacements. Those ship designers Seaspan is worried about can be given the task of designing the replacement. It is interesting the base design for the Orcas is a Australian vessel, also doing training and also designed for Mine counter measures.

My take on the replacement

Primary role - training, replacement is slightly bigger to allow roughly the same accommodations, but on a more stable hull. This would allow them to sail further and not to be as weather restricted.

Secondary role - Harbour and harbour approached security duties. Hard points for a RWS forward and two MG weapon stations on either beam.

Secondary role - Ability to easily deploy a RHIB, support a small dive team or a small/medium sized ROV for route clearance duties. Side scan also needed.

Larger fleet - With the demise of the Kingstons we will need more of these vessels. A couple for the great lakes and some for the East Coast.

 

[Rainbow1910]

The Orca's are getting on to 20 years old, it would be good to start planning the replacements. Those ship designers Seaspan is worried about can be given the task of designing the replacement. It is interesting the base design for the Orcas is a Australian vessel, also doing training and also designed for Mine counter measures.

My take on the replacement

Primary role - training, replacement is slightly bigger to allow roughly the same accommodations, but on a more stable hull. This would allow them to sail further and not to be as weather restricted.

Secondary role - Harbour and harbour approached security duties. Hard points for a RWS forward and two MG weapon stations on either beam.

Secondary role - Ability to easily deploy a RHIB, support a small dive team or a small/medium sized ROV for route clearance duties. Side scan also needed.

Larger fleet - With the demise of the Kingstons we will need more of these vessels. A couple for the great lakes and some for the East Coast.

I've said it previously that I do not trust the RCN and Canadian Govt not to send any Orca replacement away from its key training roles, and swap it into other roles to take up slack within the fleet. The only reason this hasn't happened with the Orca's is that they are physically unable to leave their immediate home coast without being loaded on a heavy lift ship and carried. I'd rather have something similar again to stop this concern.

 

[Underway]

I've said it previously that I do not trust the RCN and Canadian Govt not to send any Orca replacement away from its key training roles, and swap it into other roles to take up slack within the fleet. The only reason this hasn't happened with the Orca's is that they are physically unable to leave their immediate home coast without being loaded on a heavy lift ship and carried. I'd rather have something similar again to stop this concern.

I wouldn't worry, I think you're going to get a cheap and not nasty little ship.

 

[RedFive]

Turn the RCMP into a Taylor Sheridan show ?

Scicario and Linoness are in my cant sail without collection.

Sounds good to me.

Our recruiting material these days is full of two things. High speed low drag stuff like dogs, ERT, air services, marine services, etc or well dressed plainclothes members looking like they're thinking really hard looking at computer screens.

The rare time a frontline member shows up in our advertising there's a significant chance they've been made to wear their forage cap because that's what the RCMP thinks makes the public identify us as cops. That, yellow stripes and grey shirts. Don't even get me started on that.

Time for us to get serious about our actual job, and leave the policing of the cities and provinces to the cities and provinces.

But enough about that and back to ship building.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I've said it previously that I do not trust the RCN and Canadian Govt not to send any Orca replacement away from its key training roles, and swap it into other roles to take up slack within the fleet. The only reason this hasn't happened with the Orca's is that they are physically unable to leave their immediate home coast without being loaded on a heavy lift ship and carried. I'd rather have something similar again to stop this concern.

The size increase I want see is to have the same accommodation in a hull that is stable for that amount of superstructure along with the minor additions I mentioned. The current hulls have no growth potentiel and are getting old. If we replace them soon they have some resale value.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The size increase I want see is to have the same accommodation in a hull that is stable for that amount of superstructure along with the minor additions I mentioned. The current hulls have no growth potentiel and are getting old. If we replace them soon they have some resale value.

The Orca hull is already an awkward size.

It is too big to get into many of the Marinas in the Gulf Islands/SoG.

It is too small to be exposed to weather/sea state outside the Gulf Islands/SoG.

If you make the next training class bigger, they get that much more expensive, harder to drive (not great for trainees) and cost you more engineers to run/maintain (sure, that could be contracted out) and require a bigger core crew.

I would actually make the next training class a bit smaller and more numerous.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was thinking maybe 5' longer and possibly 2' beam increase would give it the volume to counter the weight additions. Smaller and more numerous also means more engineers and instructors for the same number of students/cadets

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You guys are dreaming: The Orca's are training vessels - we don't replace those in Canada until they reach at least 50 years of age - just like the YAG's before.

 

[Stoker]

The Orca hull is already an awkward size.

It is too big to get into many of the Marinas in the Gulf Islands/SoG.

It is too small to be exposed to weather/sea state outside the Gulf Islands/SoG.

If you make the next training class bigger, they get that much more expensive, harder to drive (not great for trainees) and cost you more engineers to run/maintain (sure, that could be contracted out) and require a bigger core crew.

I would actually make the next training class a bit smaller and more numerous.