New CF Fitness Policies Coming

[Spartan]

If enough people ARE released I can see us developing some serious man power problems.

Especially from many CIC units - Without flak and arguement here wrt thoughts about this part of the CF - I'm just wondering what happens as I haven't seen anything thus far - I'm just wondering if it will be an across the board standard enforcements and what this will do wrt this component (ie will they be considered reservists and standards applied as such?)

 

[Haggis]

Question 1.
There are some soldiers in the CF who are on medical categories thus exempt from this rule.
Will this get in shape or else rule prompt more soldiers to find ways to be put on medical categories?  I mean won't there be a big temptation to try and cheat the system?

Well the PSP folks wouldn't let me do my EXPRES test last week because my knee surgery was "too recent".  I needed an MO's chit to say I was good to go before they'd test me.  So I tried to book an appointment.  HA!  Too many people ahead of me trying to get out of doing the EXPRES test.

Question 2.
I've seen some soldiers who are VERY overweight. I'm not in near as good shape as I should be but some people are not in any sort of shape at all. I recall working with one soldier a few years ago who must have been 350+ pounds. I wouldn't be surprised at 400.

Round is a shape.  ;D

I mean if they pay for boob jobs and sex changes.

But not for laser eye surgery.  Which procedure will make you a more effective soldier?  Never mind... Don't get me started.....

 

[foerestedwarrior]

But not for laser eye surgery.  Which procedure will make you a more effective soldier?  Never mind... Don't get me started.....

I KNOW!!!

I think that if you cant pass the standard, get out. Sure it will cause man power problems, we will be better off for it. I mean, I put my social life on hold so I can work out 6-7 hours a week, not alot in the long run. I am not in fantastic shape, but enough to have gotten my exemption on the EXPRES test.

If someone is 350-400lbs, then no promotion. That is the incentive to get in shape. If you cant run atleast a level 6 on the beep test......well then I dunno.......

 

[Jarnhamar]

But not for laser eye surgery.  Which procedure will make you a more effective soldier?  Never mind... Don't get me started.....

Or to pay for a soldier to get dental work done so they can volunteer for overseas duty.

I wonder if my CSM will beat the crap out of me if I put in a memo for gender reassignment

So I tried to book an appointment.  HA!  Too many people ahead of me trying to get out of doing the EXPRES test.

Thats what I figured would happen.  The medical system being swamped with soldiers seeking exemption from the Express test. 
I had an MO put something wrong down on my medical which (incorrectly) put be on a medical category thus making my 2 year wait for a component transfer even longer. Tried to book an appointment and the girl said I'm better off getting a civi doctor to examine me and write me off, which of course I'll have to pay for.  I had a feeling the express test exemption thing might be a reason for it.

 

[Haggis]

I wonder if my CSM will beat the crap out of me if I put in a memo for gender reassignment

If that's all you're asking for the answer will be "yes".  If you ask to get your eyes done at the same time, you may be able to score a package deal.

 

[rifleman]

Thats what I figured would happen.  The medical system being swamped with soldiers seeking exemption from the Express test. 

Come on. What evidence do you have that people there were trying to get out of xpress testing?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Come on. What evidence do you have that people there were trying to get out of xpress testing?

Are you being sarcastic or your honestly asking for evidence?

 

[rifleman]

I am honestly asking for evidence that all of a sudden people are flocking into the MIR just to get out of Xpress testing. I ask because I think the report that 10% or so were unfit or medically excused testing was used to make a point of the CF's fitness level. However, of the number, how many were actually unfit?

I think it is reasonable in our line of work to have injured soldiers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's common sense more than anything.  Up until now soldiers have been able to squeeze by.  If your unfit then what's going to happen? Nothing.  People weren't getting kicked out and there didn't seem to be any real big repercussion.
Now, if you are "unfit" then you can no longer be promoted, your chain of command becomes involved, i don't know the exact details.  In anycase, soldiers who are unfit will deal with repercussions.

Now, all the soldiers who were unfit have a choice.
Take the express test, fail, then start the process of what happens when you fail.
Or, since being on a medical category can excuse you from having to take the test (thus suffering repercussions on failing) a soldier can speak with the doctors with a view to being medically excused. (Bad back, ankles etc..)

I'm not saying all soldiers are going to get exempt from the test, far from it.  It's still common sense that some soldiers WILL try and get on a medical category to avoid this.  Now some will of course be justified and deserve/require the exemption and some will do it because they are lazy.  Thats just human nature.

The example I like to use is when I had to go a units MIR to get poison ivy cream. The Mir was completely SWAMPED! People had to wait outside. The medics were in a brutally pissed off mood. Why were so many people at the Mir? Because we had just been told the next day was a battalion run with a general or colonel or someone and it was mandatory everyone go. From the mouths of the medics, most of the people were there just to get out of the run.

Now if someone will go to that length to get out of that days PT and running, isn't it logical that they will mirror that laziness and try to get out of the career effecting CF express test?

Again thats not all soldiers but I think there will be enough of them doing it to effect the medical system slowing it.

 

[rifleman]

Getting a chit for a year so you don't have to take an Xpress Test is a lot different than getting one for a day's run. That in itself has career implications.  What you gave wasn't evidence just supposition.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ahh well you got me there gumshoe. Consider it supposition then.  I'll wait until someone from the medical field chimes in with their opinion on if they feel like this new order will result in an increase of soldiers seeking medical exemption from the express test.

I don't think people are getting 'chits' for a year. Medical categories/exemptions are a little more substantial and far reaching than that.

 

[rifleman]

So ... those people at the MIR might actually need medical assistance. How dare they, on sick parade no less <--- That was sarcasm

 

[Jarnhamar]

Now you're just trolling

I'm not saying all soldiers are going to get exempt from the test, far from it.  It's still common sense that some soldiers WILL try and get on a medical category to avoid this.

From the mouths of the medics, most of the people were there just to get out of the run.

Again thats not all soldiers

Now some will of course be justified and deserve/require the exemption and some will do it because they are lazy.

You about done trying to turn this thread into a petty argument Rifleman?
If you're trying to suggest I'm insinuating anyone who goes to the mir is faking or that no one there actually needs medical assistance then you're grabbing at straws - in a pretty pathetic attempt too.
My comments I quoted above point out the fact that I'm targeting a specific group of people and not making blanket statements so nice try.

 

[rifleman]

the question was directed at Haggis and you. And it was just asking for evidence. You said that medics told you about getting out of the run. not Xpress testing. Just keeping it honest

 

[Haggis]

the question was directed at Haggis

As I said in my previous post, I tried to book a GDMO appointment and have been waiting six days for a call back to acknowledge my request.  In the past I've received return calls in less than a day.

On the evidentiary side, three weeks ago I went to the MIR after PT for an injury.  It was well after sick parade (mid to late morning) and the place was still packed.  About 90 minutes later, one of the Med A's came out and apologised for the wait stating they'd had a couple of emergencies.  No big deal.  While waiting for the results of my X-Rays, (now going into my fourth hour), I overheard two staff comment (jokingly??) that "it was never this busy before the CANFORGEN".

You can draw two conclusions from that:  1. In an attempt to meet the standard, people are overtraining and getting hurt.  2. In an attempt to skirt the standard people are in "Test Avoidance Mode".

Even if it is a small percentage of the CF, from what I saw in that waiting room and the comments I overheard, I'll take door number two, Johnny.

 

[mgreer]

Getting a chit for a year so you don't have to take an Xpress Test is a lot different than getting one for a day's run. That in itself has career implications.  What you gave wasn't evidence just supposition.

No, but getting medically excused for a period of time to get ones self in shape to pass the express test is more reasonable than first failing and having to deal with the repercussions.

 

[rifleman]

No, but getting medically excused for a period of time to get ones self in shape to pass the express test is more reasonable than first failing and having to deal with the repercussions.

This is becoming too big of a deal. I was just trying to point out that I highly doubt that people were at the MIR just to get out of Xpress Testing. My advice is stay within your arcs, worry about your own fitness and encourage your subordinates to do the same. FIT TO FIGHT and  FIGHT TO WIN!! .... OUT

 

[Jarnhamar]

I was just trying to point out that I highly doubt that people were at the MIR just to get out of Xpress Testing.

You said that medics told you about getting out of the run. not Xpress testing

You're right of course.  This happened 3 years ago, before the new rule came out. The medics were not talking about the express test. 
I was trying to conclude that if soldiers were willing to go to the MIR in order to get out of going for a run (in my example, which would have no career slowing implications) then it only stands to reasons that these same types of out of shape soldiers may likely seek out being designated medically unfit for the test instead of getting in shape to pass it or fail it and suffer the consequences. 

No, but getting medically excused for a period of time to get ones self in shape to pass the express test is more reasonable than first failing and having to deal with the repercussions.

Is this fair though?  Can being out of shape actually be considered a medical condition?  If soldiers are permitted to be medically exempt from the test until they are in a position where they can pass it, doesn't that defeat the whole discipline/punishment side of the order? 

 

[ZipperHead]

This is becoming too big of a deal. I was just trying to point out that I highly doubt that people were at the MIR just to get out of Xpress Testing. My advice is stay within your arcs, worry about your own fitness and encourage your subordinates to do the same. FIT TO FIGHT and  FIGHT TO WIN!! .... OUT

I doubt you are going to get any "proof" that there are people going in with the express intent of "getting out of the EXPRES Test". I think any self-respecting or competent MO (military or civilian) who hears someone say: "I want to get out of the EXPRES Test. Gimme a chit, Doc!!!" is probably going to tell them to get bent. I have a feeling the complaints are a little less specific, yet attain the same net result: medically excused from carrying out with the testing (until the chit runs out). Those without shame (or pride.... or dignity) don't let a little thing like details stop them from doing whatever it takes to get out of something like PT, or fitness testing.

My better half is a Med Tech, and she tells me nothing about the specifics of people coming through the Base Clinic, as she is prohibited because of confidentiality issues. So I would seriously doubt any Med Tech is going to come on here and say the X% of all people coming in to the MIR this week were because of this reason (get out of fitness testing).

I have my own theories/suspicions about whether or not MIR visits are up since the latest directives, much in the same way I could bet a paycheck that on Fridays and just prior to summer/winter leave, MIR visits are down, and on Mondays and the first day after block leave, visits are up. Or just prior to a kick-ass run or the 13km. Do I have proof? No. Do you have proof to dispute this? I doubt it as well.

I'm not sure if that is "in arc" enough for you, but I happen to back those such as Haggis and Ghost who have witnessed enough BS to know that if it looks like BS, smells like BS, and feels like BS, it is probably BS. But I suspect that maybe we are just conspiracy theorists. Get out the tinfoil hats, lads!!

Al

 

[rifleman]

I have my own theories/suspicions about whether or not MIR visits are up since the latest directives, much in the same way I could bet a paycheck that on Fridays and just prior to summer/winter leave, MIR visits are down, and on Mondays and the first day after block leave, visits are up. Or just prior to a kick-*** run or the 13km. Do I have proof? No. Do you have proof to dispute this? I doubt it as well.

I never made wild accusations requiring proof.