No Names, No Pack Drills

[Pinto]

I'm sure many of you have heard the expression, "No Names, No Pack Drills." From context, I have always taken it to mean that the discussion at hand is not going to be specifically attributed to anyone... but everyone knows who you are talking about anyway.

Does anyone have any other ideas what the expression means? And, more interestingly, does anyone have any idea where the expression comes from?

Cheers!
-Pinto
:akimbo:

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I'm sure many of you have heard the expression, "No Names, No Pack Drills." From context, I have always taken it to mean that the discussion at hand is not going to be specifically attributed to anyone... but everyone knows who you are talking about anyway.

Does anyone have any other ideas what the expression means? And, more interestingly, does anyone have any idea where the expression comes from?

Cheers!
-Pinto
:akimbo:

Like a lot of our slang, probably from the British Army.  Referring I guess to the practice of sergeants major "taking names" and assigning pack drill as a punishment duty.  The meaning is as you described; a slangy way of saying "I heard this from someone, but I'm not telling you whom" or "so-and-so just did something, but I'm not telling you who it is".

 

[George Wallace]

You know what "Pack Drill" is right?  A punishment.  Where a person is kitted out in full Fighting Order and Full Ruck and given Drill at a rather 'hurried' pace on the Parade Square.

You do know that you can be punished for naming names in the wrong place and time, right?

Hence, "No Names, No Pack Drill!"

;D

 

[AmmoTech90]

George,

I always understood it was to protect the guilty, especially if they are not there to defend themselves.  Don't mention their names, they don't get pack drill.

Seems rather selfish to use it to protect yourself when you are bad mouthing someone.

<D>

 

[George Wallace]

You are correct also.  In a way it works both ways.

You stay out of trouble; they stay out of trouble.

 

[FastEddy]

You know what "Pack Drill" is right?  A punishment.  Where a person is kitted out in full Fighting Order and Full Ruck and given Drill at a rather 'hurried' pace on the Parade Square.

You do know that you can be punished for naming names in the wrong place and time, right?

Hence, "No Names, No Pack Drill!"

;D

Yes George has pretty well hit the nail on the head, but just to defind its use "No Names".

"I or Maybe I know who did/said that, but I can't/won't say because of possible re- procussions".

Just a note, surprising I hear that expression used a lot on Civie Street, how or why ?, (maybe just
a hand me down).

P.S. Full Ruck, use to be called Full Marching Order and the punishment George is referring to was part of a sesentence of CB (Confined to Barracks) which the individual reported to the Guard Room to the O.O hourly in Various Marching orders on Defaulters Parade up to a defined time. The Quick time Drill was usually conducted by the O/Cpl or O/Sgt. After 14 days CB the only thing worse was going to the DB for 14 days.
At least thats how we did it in the old days.

 

[Reccesoldier]

Ah yes, Pack Drill.

I only ever gave one command during pack drill...



"Marrrrrk TIME!" > ;D

 

[missing1]

"A soldier whose kit on parade was unsatisfactory would have his name taken by the NCO on the orders of the inspecting officer(see Wilfred Owen's poem Inspection), and would be put on a charge before his company commander. The resulting penalty would, at one time, probably have included a period of drill in full kit ("pack drill"). A good parade was one during which no one's kit was below standard, so no names were taken, so no pack drill would ensue. Hence the expression implying that the fewer names named, the better.
: Michael Grosvenor Myer, Cambridge"

Dave

 

[Gunner98]

The punishment could have been simply " Extra Work and Drill".  Although CB in most units included EWD in the SOPs for CB.  It is more common today to see people walking around picking up garbage wearing coveralls than to see someone marking time in FMO.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

"A soldier whose kit on parade was unsatisfactory would have his name taken by the NCO on the orders of the inspecting officer(see Wilfred Owen's poem Inspection), and would be put on a charge before his company commander. The resulting penalty would, at one time, probably have included a period of drill in full kit ("pack drill"). A good parade was one during which no one's kit was below standard, so no names were taken, so no pack drill would ensue. Hence the expression implying that the fewer names named, the better.
: Michael Grosvenor Myer, Cambridge"

Dave

Sweet vindication. ;D

 

[Art Johnson]

Interesting discussion, I recall being at Pet when a Gunner died while doing Pack Drill, or was it No. One Field Punishment. Is there a difference? I do recall it was discontinued after the incident. The chap who died had his large pack filled with sand and had to double around the Parade Square.

 

[FastEddy]

Interesting discussion, I recall being at Pet when a Gunner died while doing Pack Drill, or was it No. One Field Punishment. Is there a difference? I do recall it was discontinued after the incident. The chap who died had his large pack filled with sand and had to double around the Parade Square.

Hi Art, Its nice to know that some of us old Soldiers are still around. Yes your quite correct, I recall that incident very well. It was all the buzz around the Camps then.

I was at the C Pro C Detachment in Camp Borden. At the time, the SDB in Pet. had the reputation of being the toughest in the Army followed by No. 12 in Borden. There were a few conflicting facts surrounding the incident, 1st: was it pack drill on the square or was it running the obstacle course. 2nd: were the Large & small packs & Bren Pouches filled with sand or the normal kit items assigned to the packs.

Since that incident I have only seen Punishment Drill done in Battle Order. Having spent most of my Service in the Company & Detachments I'm not that familiar with the Old DB terminology.

To Gunner98, yes, for small attached units extra duty was more than likely plus confinement to quarters and whereas Orders Parade was conducted by Oi/c or OC's. If a Accused  was paraded before a Adjutant or Higher at a School, Bn. or Regiment, Defaulters Parade was the norm, Defaulters could and were also used in between parades for Fatigues.

Yes I do not doubt you for one minute, that today you usually see Defaulters just picking up garbage rather than on the Square in FMO. That may be one of the reasons for the slow erosion of Discipline in the Cdn. Army today.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Saw caught a glimpse of it at our camp in Yugo '94.

Nasty very nasty, it was made worst knowing it was a good buddy.

but he survived and was a tough sob.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

If a Accused   was paraded before a Adjutant or Higher at a School, Bn. or Regiment, Defaulters Parade was the norm, Defaulters could and were also used in between parades for Fatigues.
Yes I do not doubt you for one minute, that today you usually see Defaulters just picking up garbage rather than on the Square in FMO. That may be one of the reasons for the slow erosion of Discipline in the Cdn. Army today.

This reminds me of one of my Base Duty Sgt stints here last fall. One of the CTC Schools had a young man on 17 days defaulters/CB. The lad was on a career course so attended classes during reg working hours. Lived in the detention room next to J7 for the duration though.
Mon-Fri: Parade Square (actually inside the H12 drill hall becuase we can't have anybody actually seeing punishment in effect I guess) from 1830-2200hrs Mon-Fri.
Saturdays: 0800-1100: Drill Hall again. 1130-1200 lunch. 1230-1600 weeding the J7 walkway or other task as seen as fit by the Duty Sgt) then after supper from 1800-2200 back in the drill hall.
Sundays: (his day of rest) 0700-2200hrs - change parade, once an hour on the hour in front of the J7 Duty Pers, and there was an awful lot of drill and running (to make the timings) involved in that too.

I recall watching as a kid being posted here to Gagetown watching some defaulters from 2RCR running up the Main Gate Mile (the big grassy field) from the main gate to the gym pushing lawn-movers with a jeep carrying their supervising staff hot on their asses.

 

[Gayson]

Pack drill still happens.

I witnessed it last year.

 

[FastEddy]

Pack drill still happens.

I witnessed it last year.

Ahhh ! Gentlemen, my faith thou restore'est, according to the last three posts.

Cheers.

 

[Gunner98]

I have no doubt it still takes place, but as stated not in full public view.  Llots of things occur that probably shouldn't that is why we have seen the Inspector General, the Bud'man and the CRS open offices and of course the Dixon Report.

ArmyVern said, "One of the CTC Schools had a young man on 17 days defaulters/CB."  Nice touch very much in line with the subject topic. :-X

 

[armyvern]

I have no doubt it still takes place, but as stated not in full public view.   Llots of things occur that probably shouldn't that is why we have seen the Inspector General, the Bud'man and the CRS open offices and of course the Dixon Report.

ArmyVern said, "One of the CTC Schools had a young man on 17 days defaulters/CB."   Nice touch very much in line with the subject topic. :-X

Well I guess it could have been worse.  :-[  I could have mentionned his name, school etc! No need, they all do defaulters around here!!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Wow, I can't believe I didn't get Gunner98's quip until I read the above post,....shame on me. :-[

 

[George Wallace]

Now.  Defaulters Drill is a whole different thing.  It is more common and still practiced by some of the Regiments/Units who are maintaining some semblance of Discipline.