NYC subway passenger dies after another puts him in a headlock

[mariomike]

He no longer faces criminal jeopardy. Civil could be another matter.

The "four on the floor" NYC "subway vigilante" got 8 months.

Civil trial awarded $43 million against the shooter. Not sure if he ever paid a penny of it. ( No pun intended about Danny Penny. )

 

[KevinB]

The "four on the floor" NYC "subway vigilante" got 8 months.

Civil trial awarded $43 million against the shooter. Not sure if he ever paid a penny of it. ( No pun intended about Danny Penny. )

Bernhard Goetz was only convicted of possession of an unregistered handgun - for which he got the 8 month sentence.
He was acquitted of the Murder, Attempted Murder, and Assault charges.
A good backgrounder on that - and how certain things worked out the way they did.

The Trial of Bernhard Goetz: An Account

Welcome to Famous Trials, the Web’s largest and most visited collection of original essays, trial transcripts and exhibits, maps, images, and other materials relating to the greatest trials in world history.public $MetaDesc =

famous-trials.com

The moral of the story on the Goetz case for a lot of people was ensure your target is dead. So they personally cannot come after you for Damages -- it requires family to come after you for wrongful death cases. Which as we have seen from OJ Simpson one can be found liable for, even if acquitted for the killings.

 

[mariomike]

Bernie puts in his 2 pennies in the Penny case. ( Pun intended. )

( The pun is the lowest form of humour - when you don't think of it first. )

Subway vigilante Bernie Goetz breaks his silence on Daniel Penny

On any given day in Manhattan's West Village, you can find America's most notorious modern-day vigilante walking the streets.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The moral of the story on the Goetz case for a lot of people was ensure your target is dead. So they personally cannot come after you for Damages -- it requires family to come after you for wrongful death cases. Which as we have seen from OJ Simpson one can be found liable for, even if acquitted for the killings.

They got Goetz on the old Sullivan law. I read of old time NYC gangsters who had their suit pockets sewn shut, so no one could slip a gun in, and get them arrested.

 

[CBH99]

No that was the lesser charge.

Which to me makes zero sense - as if they where going to let him off regardless why even deliberate for 5 days and have the DA reduce the charge.

That's what confused me the other day too

 

[KevinB]

That's what confused me the other day too

Seems like someone on the jury wanted more time off work...

 

[mariomike]

At the Army-Navy game.

 

[medicineman]

Seems like someone on the jury wanted more time off work...

Hope they pay them well then...for my 2 weeks of jury duty, I got a resounding $400ish...which was essentially what I usually made then in about 6 hours. Maybe the hotel and food was worth it, unless NYC juries aren't sequestered during deliberations like here if they go over a certain time. We snuck our decision in just under the wire for being sent off to the hotel for the night.

 

[mariomike]

Hope they pay them well then...

Information for New York State Jurors​

WHO PAYS YOUR JURY FEE?

Juror: Are You Employed?

https://nyjuror.gov/pdfs/whopaysjuryfee.pdf

for my 2 weeks of jury duty, I got a resounding $400ish...which was essentially what I usually made then in about 6 hours.

YMMV depending on your collective agreement.

We were excused as jurors, but were frequently subpoenaed as witnesses.

(a) Each employee who is called to serve as a juror or is subpoenaed as a witness in a legal proceeding,

(i) shall be granted leave of absence for such purpose, provided that upon completion of their jury or witness service such employee shall present to their Division Head a satisfactory certificate showing the period of such service;

(ii) shall be paid their full salary or wage for the period of such jury or witness service; provided that they shall pay to the Deputy City Manager & Chief Financial Officer of the City the full amount of compensation received for such service and obtain an official receipt therefor, it being understood that the full amount does not include monies received on days other than their regularly scheduled work day with the City or any monies received for meal allowance or travelling allowances; and

(iii) shall, upon being released from jury or witness service in the forenoon of any day, immediately telephone their Division for instructions respecting their return to work and shall, upon receiving such instructions, comply with the same

(b) When a shift worker has completed the last day of their Jury or Witness service, they shall report for their next scheduled shift provided that they have a rest period of not less than twelve (12) hours from the completion of such service until the start of their next shift.

​

 

[brihard]

Hope they pay them well then...for my 2 weeks of jury duty, I got a resounding $400ish...which was essentially what I usually made then in about 6 hours. Maybe the hotel and food was worth it, unless NYC juries aren't sequestered during deliberations like here if they go over a certain time. We snuck our decision in just under the wire for being sent off to the hotel for the night.

Jury pay in most jurisdictions in Canada at least is crap (I think Newfoundland is an exception). I took an undergraduate course in jury trials last year as the final credit for my degree. For my final paper I actually examined exactly this and analyzed how poor (or no) compensation for jurors was a barrier to properly representative juries and was a barrier to justice. Juries end up disproportionately comprised of those who can afford weeks of jury duty. Lots of retirees and public sector workers with jury duty provisions in their collective agreements.

I ended up in my paper proposing (and napkin-math costing) a provincial income benefit to support people in Ontario in performing jury duty. It was actually really interesting and informative to research and write.

 

[mariomike]

Lots of retirees and public sector workers with jury duty provisions in their collective agreements.

They nailed me last month.

Then informed me my entire Panel had been cancelled.

Your name will be returned to the jury selection pool and you may or may not receive another summons sometime in the future in the mail.

This notice is given by the local sheriff pursuant to s. 21(3) of the Juries Act.

Interesting how many online searches there are for,

Jury Duty Ontario - How can I get out of it?​

 

[brihard]

They nailed me last month.

Then informed me my entire Panel had been cancelled.





Interesting how many online searches there are for,

Jury Duty Ontario - How can I get out of it?​

 

[medicineman]

Jury pay in most jurisdictions in Canada at least is crap (I think Newfoundland is an exception). I took an undergraduate course in jury trials last year as the final credit for my degree. For my final paper I actually examined exactly this and analyzed how poor (or no) compensation for jurors was a barrier to properly representative juries and was a barrier to justice. Juries end up disproportionately comprised of those who can afford weeks of jury duty. Lots of retirees and public sector workers with jury duty provisions in their collective agreements.

I ended up in my paper proposing (and napkin-math costing) a provincial income benefit to support people in Ontario in performing jury duty. It was actually really interesting and informative to research and write.

I lucked out in that I was compensated by work for the shifts I missed...however, I had to transfer the stipend to the WRHA as a means of recompense. Not everyone is that lucky - there was a mix of folks on my panel, some where their CBA's accounted for them being away, others though that were self-employed had some issues. I did see a number of folks managed to get deferred due to financial issues - the judge didn't put up a lot of fuss, mind you there were about 70 people there for 2 trials, so plenty of wiggle room. When I got my summons, I responded after discussing with my employer - they were surprised I'd be able to get away due to working in a busy ER. It's done, don't need to worry about it for another year now.

 

[mariomike]

When they informed me our entire Panel had been cancelled, my imagination went to work wondering if the Panel had been compromised.

Capone’s men have the jury list, and they are passing out money, tickets to prize fights, city jobs and using muscle.

 

[medicineman]

When they informed me our entire Panel had been cancelled, my imagination went to work wondering if the Panel had been compromised.

Someone might have copped a plea deal too though...

 

[brihard]

Someone might have copped a plea deal too though...

That’s my guess. Late stage plea.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Jury pay in most jurisdictions in Canada at least is crap (I think Newfoundland is an exception). I took an undergraduate course in jury trials last year as the final credit for my degree. For my final paper I actually examined exactly this and analyzed how poor (or no) compensation for jurors was a barrier to properly representative juries and was a barrier to justice. Juries end up disproportionately comprised of those who can afford weeks of jury duty. Lots of retirees and public sector workers with jury duty provisions in their collective agreements.

I ended up in my paper proposing (and napkin-math costing) a provincial income benefit to support people in Ontario in performing jury duty. It was actually really interesting and informative to research and write.

Any chance you can post it here? I'm intereted.

 

[brihard]

Any chance you can post it here? I'm intereted.

Sure, no problem, just had to remove personal info. It's just an undergraduate paper, but I think I gave the subject a decent enough treatment for that level of work.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Sure, no problem, just had to remove personal info. It's just an undergraduate paper, but I think I gave the subject a decent enough treatment for that level of work.

Thanks. Just interested about jury duty. Listened to a interview about 20 years ago about the Manitoba and the presenter was talked about how the system worked their and how the problems with the system.