Posting Policy-Out of Canada (OUTCAN) [MERGED]

[McG]

I think the argument is that the base pay accounts for the uniquenesses of being a service member.  There is no legitimate reason to expect that other sorts of compensation should be artificially inflated for reasons unrelated to what is being compensates.

 

[DAA]

This is not an exercise in saving money, far from it!!!  OUTCAN benefits, where it applies to "operations" change on a "quarterly" basis.  So from the outset of an operation, the remuneration factor should or will be relatively high.  Once, CF pers are on the ground, it should be expected that the conditions improve somewhat and that's just the way things happen.

If you want a real head scratcher, going back 10 years ago or so and I am only going by "memory".........

Personnel posted to "Tampa, Florida" as part of the support element to OP ATHENA (I think) were entitled to both Hardship and Risk Allowance.

So changes to OUTCAN benefits are always ongoing and not as a result of GoC cutbacks.

 

[dimsum]

This is not an exercise in saving money, far from it!!!  OUTCAN benefits, where it applies to "operations" change on a "quarterly" basis.  So from the outset of an operation, the remuneration factor should or will be relatively high.  Once, CF pers are on the ground, it should be expected that the conditions improve somewhat and that's just the way things happen.

I was under the impression that Ops FSP is counted differently than OUTCAN Posting FSP?  I know that Ops FSP gets looked at every quarter, but I thought that Posting FSP is looked at less (annually comes to mind).

Again, after only reading the brief article there and without further info, I thought the cuts were only to OUTCAN Posting FSP vice Ops FSP.  Happy (well, not "happy") to be proven wrong though.

 

[mad dog 2020]

Quote from: dapaterson on May 21, 2013, 21:27:00
Like $56K a year to a 23 year old with no training or experience outside the military?  Like allowances to compensate for conditions that CF members may not experience while in receipt of them?  Like the ability to retire with an immediate annuity at age 42?  Heck, even Members of Parliament have to wait until age 60 to draw their pensions...

I am at odds with this.  In this day and age it is hard to get many young people to step outside their comfort zones. So their life experience is PAY to take a 2-3 yr program in college , maybe live at home and then search for a job. So to pack up at 18 on your own and join up is cutting the cord abruptly.  Then a condensed job focused program with immediate job placement.  And like mentioned the responsibility and trust of people's lives in your hands. 
Our youth unemployment is high, yet the oil fields are crying for staff and willing to train.  Yet we look off shore as many do not want to leave their friends and family for 72K plus......
So the young service members are like pioneers that ventured off to seek new adventures...
I say leave the pay and benefits alone for the troops or like mentioned if you want to tax it, make it eligible for pension calculation. 
People can collect pogie  and stay at home until a job comes along or do something and get a trade.  The rank and file serve a purpose to be there just in case and keep things working.
I still recall those pictures of men drilling with broomsticks at Exibition Park when WWII came along. The Canadian Forces was very small then too.
Our young people and basically ALL members sacrifice a lot if you consider society norm. The moves, the separations, the family or support team that mans the home front.  In the scheme of things it all balances out. Look at other areas that have already been identified over the years and have insulated themselves.
A guy told me a story once on how a home based support person was demanding equitable pay and benefits of a serving soldier at the same unit. The general said: The reason Why is, if I tell him, he is going out tomorrow he goes........ If I told you that you would put in your 2 weeks notice. That is why he gets what he gets.

 

[Kevin26]

Hey everyone,

I'm finally getting close to my graduation from university and the time to apply to the CAF is fast approaching! In that regard, I've been putting a lot more thought into exactly what positions I'd like to apply for. I'll be graduating in June 2014 from a mechanical engineering program and I've always been interested in the Navy, so I'm leaning towards the two NTO positions: Marine Systems Engineering Officer (MSE) and Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer (NCSE). Based on the research I've done so far, I believe I have a fairly good idea of what to expect in the short term; from training, to what duties can be expected while posted at sea, etc. What is not terribly clear to me are the long term opportunities for NTOs and whether it makes a considerable difference depending on which of the two you pick.

I found this post from some time ago which detailed the career progression of NTOs, saying:

Employment opportunities and patterns vary greatly for NTOs, and there are a number of positions available to acquire the breadth of experience required for NAV ENG employment.  Tours of duty in NDHQ in general, and ADM (Mat)/DGMEPM and DGMPD(L&S) in particular, are considered essential to NTO development, particularly during the post-HOD period.

and,

The spectrum of opportunities outside of the mainstream technical field is far-reaching.  These ‘purple’ positions denote jobs in the wider CF that broaden an officer’s appreciation of the overall CF and yield a greater understanding of the corporate organization.  Positions in areas such as recruiting, training and leadership academies, personnel management, UN missions are valuable to the NTO and the Navy.

[Source: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89955.0]

I am most interested in what has been said about UN missions, and in general, any opportunity to be posted to another country (US, anywhere in Europe, Africa, Asia, etc.). Positions that involve liaising with Washington, NATO, and NORAD also all sound extremely interesting to me. So with all this in mind, here are my primary questions:

- Which (if either) of the MSE and NCSE occupations is more likely to have the chance to serve abroad, and how often do international opportunities come up?
- Is there an occupation (even outside the scope of the Navy and engineering positions) that is better suited to my interests?

I apologize for the lengthy format of my query!

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[JBP]

I've been poking and prodding the career manager and my chain of command over the past year and was put up as a primary for an OUTCAN guy whom dagged red.

What I'm wondering is if having a family (2 kids and a wife) deters them from posting us OUTCAN due to expenses? My oldest will require going to school (obviously expensive internationally). I know 'officially' they cannot say no just because you have a family, but with this years' fiscal constraints, can I kiss my hopes of OUTCAN good bye during my career?

Some details: IST, scheduled to be promoted to MCpl 1 Jul 2014. International experience already with Exs, Ops and a tour, extensive training and quals. Towing an excited, supportive family with me along this crazy life!

 

[dimsum]

This happened prior to the current budget, but my counterpart brought his 2 kids and wife over.  Personally-speaking, I don't think it would be an issue especially if you're being considered for a backfill due to someone dagging red.

 

[Happy Guy]

I am on OUTCAN now.

People being posted this APS are coming to this location with their spouses and children.  Our children are entitled to go to private schools here.  Based on this I do not see any evidence of OUTCAN postings being overly adversely affected by budgetary constraints.

Due to the high international profile of most OUTCAN postings, I would like to think that the selection committee chose people for their competence first.

 

[RubberTree]

Hello all,
The issue of outcan postings has come up recently and I'm trying to get some background knowledge on a specific question. If anyone has some insight or an actual regulation that I could read I would be most grateful...

If a member is posted on outcan and the member's spouse (who is also a member) goes on LWOP in order to accompany, are there any regulations regarding the spouse working, while on LWOP, while out of Canada (specifically in the US)?
Thank you in advance for your help, I greatly appreciate it.
RT

 

[DAA]

Hello all,
The issue of outcan postings has come up recently and I'm trying to get some background knowledge on a specific question. If anyone has some insight or an actual regulation that I could read I would be most grateful...

If a member is posted on outcan and the member's spouse (who is also a member) goes on LWOP in order to accompany, are there any regulations regarding the spouse working, while on LWOP, while out of Canada (specifically in the US)?
Thank you in advance for your help, I greatly appreciate it.
RT

Not that I am aware of.  As a spouse on LWOP (Spousal Accompaniement), you should be posted to the NDHQ Holding List (9000 Series UIC) for the duration but this never seems to happen these days.  PM me with your details and I can probably put you in touch with some people working in the admin world down their right now.

 

[RubberTree]

Thank you DAA.

 

[dapaterson]

There may be restrictions on working depending on the terms of the visa the spouse is on.  It's not merely a question for the CAF; it's also a question for the laws, regulations and policies in the country where you're posted.

There may also be professional issues, if for example your spouse holds qualifications that are not recognized abroad.

 

[RubberTree]

Thanks for the reply dapaterson. Yes she will have to apply for both a visa and license to work in the states. That is step two. Step one is confirming that she is in fact allowed to work as far as the CF is concerned.

 

[Zoomie]

She'll go down to the U.S. under a N2 VISA.  She will be able to get a Social Security Card and work where-ever she likes.  We have plenty of CF LWOP spouses doing exactly that. 

 

[RubberTree]

Everything just seems to be coming up Rubbertree!
Thanks

 

[Old Sweat]

My wife was not a member of the CF, but she was granted authority to work in the US. As a consequence, years after the event we are both drawing Social Security based on the three years she contributed to the trust fund.

 

[vonGarvin]

NECROTHREAD ALERT:

If you get offered an Outcan posting in Europe take it.  It is a great experience.  You will have the opportunity to travel tons as a family and the work is interesting.  That being said I have encountered people who were completely miserable over there.  They stayed in their house, went back to Canada or the States with their
travel allowance.  We did France (north and south)...

Was that in the 1940s before the Germans occupied Vichy France? 

Anyway, I'm posted to the DC area, pending a successful screening.  Not looking for info on the process, but for anyone who's been posted there, is there anything I ought to know about the greater DC area?  (Other than to not go over Congress in a hot air balloon: I may never come down!) 

 

[PuckChaser]

(Other than to not go over Congress in a hot air balloon: I may never come down!)  [emoji14]

Oh you'll come down, just not in the controlled decent you envisioned. 'Merica.

 

[dimsum]

Question for anyone recently posted back to Canada: 

I'm getting conflicting info about the Canada customs Personal Effects Accounting Document that you're supposed to have with your inventory.  How many copies of that form (and the inventory) are we supposed to fill out, and who do we give it to?  The moving company overseas told me they only deal with it up to the first port (Vancouver) but I'll be going to Comox, so who takes over from there?

So far, the process for moving back has been fairly straightforward except for this part.

Thanks!

 

[George Wallace]

On return from Europe, many moons ago, we had to have at least 3 itemized copies of what was in each numbered box/container.  One copy was to be packed in the box/container.  One would be for your copy for administration, insurance and claim.  I believe the third copies would be for Customs.  It was a long time ago, so there may have been many changes.