CountDC said:
Not my Adm - the VCDS and the CANFORGEN does supersede the CFP and I think fits into the "subject to overall command direction" part of your quote.
Ok. Then I ask you to support the claim/idea that something the CDS has authorized has been superseded by a lower rank. Go to the actual CANFORGEN you are referring to please, and copy the relevant part of it where it says "this CANFORGEN supersedes Ch1, Art 8 of CFP 265. If it does, then there should be an amendment to CFP 265 forthcoming, no?
submit my grievance that would be successful to have the order over ruled by a higher level as it is against regulations.
The highest reference we have in the CAF for dress is CFP 265. Issued under authority of the CDS. Usually, the higher orders are the more 'open' and amplifying orders from lower level HQs, etc may be more restrictive, but not more permissive. In my case, I have CFP 265, 1 Cdn Div Orders, Wing and then Sqn Dress Instructions that I follow. They become more restrictive, not permissive. It only makes sense.
If you know at all how file reviews are conducted at DGCFGA or the MEGRC, you know that they look at orders in their order of precedence, etc. I would not be so confident in a grievance being accepted, let alone successful.
However, please identify the actual CANFORGEN. I bet a box of donuts it doesn't say "CFP 265 no longer matters" but would be more than willing to say "Okay, I was wrong" if it does.
actually I am both. SNCO is someone of Sgt rank level, SNCM covers all from Sgt to CWO level.
The term Snr NCM, while commonly used/abused in the CAF of the last decade or so, is not defined in actual CAF policy. Your own ref's to QR & O, Vol 1, Art 1.02 "definitions" below doesn't mention and/or define a Snr NCM. So where is this definition of Snr NCM?
QR&O Definitions:
"non-commissioned member" (militaire du rang)means any person, other than an officer, who is enrolled in, or who pursuant to law is attached or seconded otherwise than as an officer to, the Canadian Forces; *
"non-commissioned officer" (sous-officier)means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal;
Art 1.02doesn't mention 'Snr NCM', so not sure why you referred to it. ???
it gives me the same right and duty though to challenge commands that are against regulations and may not be lawful, we even have a grievance process in place for such things if needed.
A clerk has the same obligations as any other NCM. Please note the absence of the words/phrases "
right and duty to challenge commands", etc.
5.01- GENERAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS
A non-commissioned member shall:
a.become acquainted with, observe and enforce i.the National Defence Act,
ii.the Security of Information Act, (5 June 2008)
iii.QR&O, and
iv.all other regulations, rules, orders and instructions that pertain to the performance of the member's duties;
(See articles 1.22 – Accessibility of Regulations, Orders and Instructions and 4.26 – Publicity of Regulations, Orders, Instructions, Correspondence and Publications.)
b.afford to all persons employed in the public service such assistance in the performance of their duties as is practical;
c.promote the welfare, efficiency and good discipline of all who are subordinate to the member;
d.ensure the proper care and maintenance and prevent the waste of all public and non-public property within the member's control; and
e.report to the proper authority any infringement of the pertinent statutes, regulations, rules, orders and instructions governing the conduct of any person subject to the Code of Service Discipline.
(M) (9 May 2008 effective 5 June 2008)
NOTE
Article 19.15 (Prohibition of Reprisals) prohibits the taking of reprisals, or directing that any be taken, against any person who has, in good faith, reported to a proper authority any infringement of the pertinent statutes, regulations, rules, orders and instructions governing the conduct of any person subject to the Code of Service Discipline, made a disclosure of wrongdoing or cooperated in an investigation carried out in respect of such a report or disclosure.
(C) (23 April 2009)
You referred to 'unlawful commands'. What is the official CAF policy on this subj?
19.015 - LAWFUL COMMANDS AND ORDERS
Every officer and non-commissioned member shall obey lawful commands and orders of a superior officer.
(M)
NOTES
(A) The expression "superior officer" includes a non-commissioned member. (See article 1.02 - Definitions.)
(B) Usually there will be no doubt as to whether a command or order is lawful or unlawful. In a situation, however, where the subordinate does not know the law or is uncertain of it he shall, even though he doubts the lawfulness of the command, obey unless the command is manifestly unlawful.
(C) An officer or non-commissioned member is not justified in obeying a command or order that is manifestly unlawful. In other words, if a subordinate commits a crime in complying with a command that is manifestly unlawful, he is liable to be punished for the crime by a civil or military court. A manifestly unlawful command or order is one that would appear to a person of ordinary sense and understanding to be clearly illegal; for example, a command by an officer or non-commissioned member to shoot a member for only having used disrespectful words or a command to shoot an unarmed child.
(D) With respect to riots, subsection 32(2) of the Criminal Code (Revised Statutes of Canada, 1985, Chapter C-46) states:
"32. (2) Every one who is bound by military law to obey the command of his superior officer is justified in obeying any command given by his superior officer for the suppression of a riot unless the order is manifestly unlawful."
(C)
19.02 - CONFLICTING LAWFUL COMMANDS AND ORDERS
(1) If an officer or non-commissioned member receives a lawful command or order that he considers to be in conflict with a previous lawful command or order received by him, he shall orally point out the conflict to the superior officer who gave the later command or order.
(2) If the superior officer still directs the officer or non-commissioned member to obey the later command or order, he shall do so.
(M)
My final :2c:, pending the actual CANFORGEN.