• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled

Another Mom said:
My reply:
The school I was talking about is not an "artsy fartsy" school but one  in which each undergrad (Including chemistry and physics students) does an independent research project  of which their oral defence is their final.  Many fine research projects and  inventions have come from that school and you would be darn lucky to have a doctor or acct that came from there.  One of their  physics students invented the optical reading devise for the compact disc.  He was not working for grades.

Having said that, I am biased. My kids could get As without much effort so we always emphasized "Did you work hard" "Did you learn something?" and we weren't impressed with the As. They are all really cool, hard working adults now.

I am not saying anything about "working for grades," but, regardless, I'm not going to hire a mathematician or engineer from a school like that. In math, physics, engineering, etc. there is a right answer and a wrong answer, and that allows you to "grade" them.
 
Hi King... He completed the project post PhD. I had the pleasure of hearing him speak about how his line of thinking developed from a young undergrad to inventor and how his disparate experiences lead to novel thinking.  He was speaking to the incoming freshman class as an alum. My point was that the particular college I referenced was not "artsy-fartsy", implying a lack of rigour, as someone suggested.
 
Kyle Burrows said:
I'd really like for you to explain this.  As far as I and some others can tell, you're being anti-canadian.  Based on your previous posting history - this is a conclusion I am not hesitant to draw.

Consider this an official request.  Failure to clarify the true intent of your post will result in your future here becoming very bleak.

Regards,

milnet staff

Sir it is one way of saying that Canadians are very law-abiding hence, I should behave. The truth of the matter,, sir, is that I was into vices worth condemning because of peer group influence. That is all I can say. Thank you for your very kind consideration.
 
ballz said:
Experience is a qualification.
Ballz, the key flaw in your argument is that you’re assuming that because you been through the system, you know the system. Well, with all due respect, you are now as qualified as millions of other Canadians. So what? There are millions of educated people here in Ontario (pop of 11+ mil, lets say 9+mil); there are 120,000 teachers. So even if it’s split 50/50, I’m one of 60,000. Do you see how the stats change things a bit? Also, remember that your “experience” is one-dimensional; you’ve only seen part of the educational system.
Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m trying to be constructive here, but at times your insistence on having “qualifications” smacks of the same entitled attitude the article speaks of. This is not to suggest your opinion isn’t valid (all student opinions are valid), but the amount of weight it carries is limited because it is one-sided. For whatever reason, you feel that your educational experience was less than satisfactory. Well, some people might feel the same, but there are many others who feel the exact opposite. Often whether we “like” someone and their teaching style come down to personal preference and personality. I find that students tend to dislike teachers because of a personality conflict or an aversion to that teacher’s instruction style. From reading what you have to say and how you say it, you’re coming across as an egotistical, “I know better” student. I saying this not to be confrontational, but to point out that while you can comment, you have never taught, so your criticisms lack validity.
Here’s an example of what I’m talking about: you spoke of a particular Social Studies teacher who did a poor job of teaching. Have you ever taught in a classroom? Are you a teacher? The answer is no, therefore you have no idea was it’s like to teach. Teaching isn’t an easy job; standing in front of a class, not only trying to instruct them, but also manage the classroom isn’t easy. It can be downright terrifying. I can remember being scared sh#tless at times. You are worried about what the students will think, what their parents will say and you're under scrutiny from administration. Yes, maybe you haven’t seen a teacher get fired, but I’ve seen new teachers not get their contracts renewed, or languishing as a substitute because they failed to make the grade. Last year I taught Gr.12 history for the first time (Modern Western History). Even with 10 years in the classroom, I was terrified at times. There is a lot of fear and apprehension that comes with doing something new, even if you’ve done it for a long time. The last thing you want to do is look foolish, or come across as not knowing your stuff. It didn’t help that I had not studied this material since I was in first year university (92-93). I'm now doing it for the 3rd time, but some of those feelings still linger.
So after all that, it all boils down to, for me anyway, that people can comment, can you cannot full understand or know if you’re not doing it. While I appreciate your comments Ballz, I will temper what you say with the fact that your “experience” is limited to the desk, not the blackboard.
 
ex-Sup said:
From reading what you have to say and how you say it, you’re coming across as an egotistical, “I know better” student.

Bravo, I wouldn't argue with that.

ex-Sup said:
While I appreciate your comments Ballz, I will temper what you say with the fact that your “experience” is limited to the desk, not the blackboard.

Of course you would, I already said, let it hold whatever weight you feel it's worth.

Just for the record, I don't think I had a bad education experience. My experience was fine, in some cases extraordinary, and what parts weren't, I certainly can't blame the teacher (although some can, and those are the ones I'm speaking for). I only had one personality conflict and it wasn't with the said SS teacher. My views are probably more objective and less biased than they come across, I guess I should work on that.
 
ballz said:
Bravo, I wouldn't argue with that.
Of course you would, I already said, let it hold whatever weight you feel it's worth.
Just for the record, I don't think I had a bad education experience. My experience was fine, in some cases extraordinary, and what parts weren't, I certainly can't blame the teacher (although some can, and those are the ones I'm speaking for). I only had one personality conflict and it wasn't with the said SS teacher. My views are probably more objective and less biased than they come across, I guess I should work on that.
Ballz, I hope I didn't come across too blunt. We as teachers need criticism too; if we aren't told that we need to get better, then how do we improve? As I mentioned, I do value the opinions of my students (and people like yourself), but there are also other things I need to weight them against. There are improvements that need to be made; every person/profession needs to strive for excellence.
Your candor and maturity says a lot.
 
Come across as too blunt? There's no such thing. I wasn't being a smart @$$, I really wouldn't argue with what you said.

I think I agree with you more than you think and I mean that.
 
For what it's worth civilian-wise, I'm in a Law & Security program, and heard that students in both Uni. and College who started last September have been some of the laziest yet...I wouldn't doubt it, either. I've noticed that the teachers either do a great job in class, or are pretty much useless and just read power points. Heck - I can stay home and do that myself.

...Don't even get me started on the waste of $ on textbooks we don't even end up using...

 
Yesterday we had some visiting British teachers drop by our school and a couple came to my class (they missed my A game lesson about Canada's growing independence during the 20/30's unfortunately  >:(). They're here to learn about how we do things here in Canada. I got into a conversation with Chris and Dave about how today's students are less inclined to be independent learners. They told me that in Britain there's a huge problem with students wanting to be "spoon fed." I nearly burst out laughing and replied that it's amazing how issues like that transcend borders and oceans. I mentioned how I'd heard about this article published this week about university students being immature, lazy and feeling entitled  ;). It's still making me laugh as I write this.
http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories.php?id=177681
 
I've found that if the teacher has a passion for the subject and/or feels it's a treat to teach it to you, the material is easy to understand I can absorb it quickly without much effort.

If the teacher is just slogging through the material it's not much fun, and it's a struggle to get through it, unless it's a passion of mine.

If you have a passion for something you really get interested in all the hidden nooks and crannies of a subject and an understanding of these can really help understand the whole, showing these to students can be fun and helps them make those "OH NOW I GET IT!" break throughs.

All my favorite teachers taught their passions and it felt like they were letting us in on a secret world of amazing things. I almost failed grade 10 chemisty, and I hated every minute of it - The teacher was monotone on par with Ben Stien in Ferris Buellers Day off, and stuck to formulas and exersizes. In Grade 11 Chemisty I went in expecting to hate it and struggle to understand it... my teacher was a retired T Bird pilot who had a passion for anything science related and was a hell of a character, through him the world of chemistry opened up to me and I enjoyed that class more than most others. Same material, different presentation.
 
Ex-sup: It transcends more than borders, it also transcends time:  In the  Republic, Plato  attributed this complaint to  Socrates  in "The  Republic", (as per  US  Library of Congress)
 
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."


Note "attributed", not necessarily proven.
 
Which pretty much summarizes my thoughts on this article:  same old, same old.
 
Quote
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

That's amazing - I didnt realize they had the Internet back then!  :blotto:

More seriously, such a statement certainly requires a re-evaluation of our perceptions of the current generations' behaviour...





 
I personally think nothing have changed.  It's the same happening again, and people making the comments have matured and do not realize it was just that way when they were younger.  Same kind of thing as when people say "In my time, it was 10X harder than today"
 
SupersonicMax said:
I personally think nothing have changed.  It's the same happening again, and people making the comments have matured and do not realize it was just that way when they were younger.  Same kind of thing as when people say "In my time, it was 10X harder than today"
No, I have to argue with that somewhat. I remember going to school with my share of slackers (unfortunately myself on occasion) and kids with bad attitudes. It's different today; maybe it has a lot to do with attitude.
Here's an example: when I was in school and you handed in garbage, there was no surprise when you got a garbage mark. There are some kids today that are truly shocked when they get their mark and they'll argue with you about it. Duh? As my colleagues often discuss, some want top marks, with little or no effort. I honestly don't remembering myself or anyone I knew being like that. Procrastinating, a little laziness, but definitely not downright apathetic.
 
ex-Sup said:
No, I have to argue with that somewhat. I remember going to school with my share of slackers (unfortunately myself on occasion) and kids with bad attitudes. It's different today; maybe it has a lot to do with attitude.
Here's an example: when I was in school and you handed in garbage, there was no surprise when you got a garbage mark. There are some kids today that are truly shocked when they get their mark and they'll argue with you about it. Duh? As my colleagues often discuss, some want top marks, with little or no effort. I honestly don't remembering myself or anyone I knew being like that. Procrastinating, a little laziness, but definitely not downright apathetic.
Do you see the error you are making? You say some are like this and some are like that and then you make a huge leap according to your own experiences you've had in school in painting todays generation with a huge brush as apathetic. I'm honestly very shocked that you keep making this error in your posts esbecially since someone in this thread has already called you on it.
 
Back
Top