Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[GeorgeD]

And joining instructions are not always error free.

 

[rocksteady]

Is it possible to be promoted without ever receiving an Immediate or Ready but you ranked well within the numbers for promotions to the next rank?

Also, if you are under the impression you are being promoted and you ask to stay at your current location and you are told you will probably be promoted and be staying, when can you expect to receive a promotion message by at the latest?  I'm guessing June or July?

Thanks.

 

[ModlrMike]

The four descriptors for promotion recommendation are "No, Developing, Ready, and Immediate". I think it would be difficult to score sufficiently high enough on a merit list having only received "Developing" PERs. That being said, anything is possible. Much depends on the size of the merit list and the number of forecast promotions. A merit board will generally consider files that equal three times the promotion forecast for the following year, plus all ties. It would be a very small trade that could not muster enough "Immediate or Ready" to account for the promotion forecast.

If you are to be promoted and stay at your unit, you could expect your promotion date to be 1 Jul, or close to it.

 

[rocksteady]

That is what I don't understand.  I was rated 58 and 77 are being forcasted for Promotion yet I have never received anything more than a developing yet I am being told I am "probably" being promoted.  One of the other guys I know was rated 64 (same trade) and received an Immediate or Ready (can't remember) and he is being promoted/posted.

 

[Occam]

Can you be promoted without receiving an Immediate recommendation? Yes.  Can you be promoted without your last PER being at least a Ready recommendation?  No, because your PER wouldn't be going in front of a selection board if you were not Immediate or Ready, therefore you would never get ranked.  You could get (hypothetically) a Ready, a Ready, an Immediate and, assuming you still didn't rank high enough to get promoted, a Developing because you screwed up big time somehow, and you would not even go to the board after the developing.

As to the other question, location really has nothing to do with it.  You have to be promoted into a position at your new rank level.  If there is no position at your current rank level at your current unit (and you're not being moved, of course), then you would not be promoted until Dec, which is called a deferred promotion.  Otherwise, if there is a position for you to go into, either at your current location or a new one you're being posted into, you're normally promoted effective a couple of weeks prior to the posting/position change.

That is what I don't understand.  I was rated 58 and 77 are being forcasted for Promotion yet I have never received anything more than a developing yet I am being told I am "probably" being promoted.  One of the other guys I know was rated 64 (same trade) and received an Immediate or Ready (can't remember) and he is being promoted/posted.

That sounds odd.  I didn't think you went to the selection board if you were developing.

 

[armyvern]

...

That sounds odd.  I didn't think you went to the selection board if you were developing.

Big year for (forecasted) retirements perhaps.

If his EMAA is showing an ML ranking, his PER must have been to boards; either that or someone typo'd someone else's rankings into his EMAA.

 

[aesop081]

Is it possible to be promoted without ever receiving an Immediate or Ready but you ranked well within the numbers for promotions to the next rank?

Yes, it is possible. Many factors have to come into play but, it does happen.

 

[Occam]

Big year for (forecasted) retirements perhaps.

If his EMAA is showing an ML ranking, his PER must have been to boards; either that or someone typo'd someone else's rankings into his EMAA.

Yes, I would have to agree.  I've heard of instances where they've promoted everyone eligible in a given year, but I would've bet good money that excluded those who didn't meet EPZ dates as well as those who didn't rate a Ready recommendation.  I guess if they need the people at the rank level, they need the people at the rank level.

 

[rocksteady]

I'm as shocked as anyone, believe me.

 

[aesop081]

A few years ago i witnessed everyone who was in the EPZ get promoted to a certain rank, including those who were "developing" and that trade still ran out of people to promote.

 

[rocksteady]

Yes, I would have to agree.  I've heard of instances where they've promoted everyone eligible in a given year, but I would've bet good money that excluded those who didn't meet EPZ dates as well as those who didn't rate a Ready recommendation.  I guess if they need the people at the rank level, they need the people at the rank level.

What does an ML ranking mean?

Thanks.

 

[Occam]

What does an ML ranking mean?

Merit List.

 

[Pusser]

Can you be promoted without your last PER being at least a Ready recommendation?  No, because your PER wouldn't be going in front of a selection board if you were not Immediate or Ready, therefore you would never get ranked. 

As to the other question, location really has nothing to do with it.  You have to be promoted into a position at your new rank level.  If there is no position at your current rank level at your current unit (and you're not being moved, of course), then you would not be promoted until Dec, which is called a deferred promotion.  Otherwise, if there is a position for you to go into, either at your current location or a new one you're being posted into, you're normally promoted effective a couple of weeks prior to the posting/position change.

The above statement in yellow is not true.  Every PER has a numerical score, be it NO, DEVELOPING, READY or IMMEDIATE.  The automatic selection process looks at your last three PERs.  The forecast determines the number of files that will go to the Merit Board and be ranked.  If your numbers are high enough to fit within the forecast, then your file goes, irrespective of what your last PER was rated as.  If your last one was a NO, however, it is unlikely you would be promoted, but only because your CO would have to sign off any promotion and he/she is unlikely to do that if he/she had just signed off on a PER that recommended against it.

 

[OBigD]

Hi Guys,

I have used the search but came up empty for my question.

I am a WENG TECH and have just finished my first year of Electronics Engineering at a civi college. I am trying to find out more information about the promotion to Able Seaman. I know that upon graduating my second year I am promoted to Acting LS and have found literature stating that; however, I have had no luck finding anything about the AS promotion except for civi news articles and a friend at MI tell me they are getting theirs after they graduate first year in December.

Can anyone give me a CANFORGEN reference or anything a little more concrete please??

Thank you all.

 

[Occam]

The abbreviation for Able Seaman is actually AB (derives from "Able Bodied"). 

According to MARCORD 9-61 (Naval Technician Training Plan), promotion to AB is "Successful completion of first Academic Year and AGJL Qualification".  AGJL was the code for OSQAB, but I don't think they call it that anymore...I think it's called NETP (Naval Environmental Training Program).

 

[CountDC]

except the CO is not the authority.  I have seen it where the CO sent back to the CM that he did not agree with a promotion but it happened anyway.

 

[DAA]

except the CO is not the authority.  I have seen it where the CO sent back to the CM that he did not agree with a promotion but it happened anyway.

I have seen it also.  CO is the promotion authority up to the rank of Cpl, beyond that it is DGMC.  All prom msgs include the caveate "with CO's concurrence" as the CM may not be aware of local issues taking place with a member that could preclude promotion.  If the CO does not concur, then there must be substantive reasons as to why, such as the member is already on C&P and the CM was not aware of it.  The closest I have seen is a deferral but in the end the member was promoted with the effective date being backdated to the original date on the msg.

 

[garb811]

Is it possible to be promoted without ever receiving an Immediate or Ready but you ranked well within the numbers for promotions to the next rank?

Also, if you are under the impression you are being promoted and you ask to stay at your current location and you are told you will probably be promoted and be staying, when can you expect to receive a promotion message by at the latest?  I'm guessing June or July?

Thanks.

Have you talked to your Chain of Command about this or were you told this by someone in your Chain of Command who would know this with certainty?  If you haven't, request to see your WO/MWO or whoever the Snr MP is where you're posted and ask them the direct question.

For when you will get your message, these are historically cut for pers being promoted/appointed during the APS in early June for MP.  If you are posted in conjunction with that, you should be getting the posting message any time.

That is what I don't understand.  I was rated 58 and 77 are being forcasted for Promotion yet I have never received anything more than a developing yet I am being told I am "probably" being promoted.  One of the other guys I know was rated 64 (same trade) and received an Immediate or Ready (can't remember) and he is being promoted/posted.

Are you 100% sure about where you ranked and what your last PER(s) have been?  That would put you ahead of some of my pers who have had a Ready and Immediate over the last two years which I would find to be very surprising if you have "never" had anything other than a developing.   

Reference the numbers this year, they are well past their forecast. IF you are indeed 58 on the merit list, you are going to be appointed unless there are other issues afoot, such as you being on Compassionate or on C&P, as I have received phone calls from the CM about several of my pers who they have reached but didn't expect to until now.

Yes, I would have to agree.  I've heard of instances where they've promoted everyone eligible in a given year, but I would've bet good money that excluded those who didn't meet EPZ dates as well as those who didn't rate a Ready recommendation.

EPZ, yes, they will be removed from consideration prior to the Board sitting but requiring a "Ready" PER, especially as the last one? No.  We had one year where I personally know a guy who was appointed on a Developing, Ready, Developing.  It was a bad year for the Branch and we're still dealing with the fallout of having unready and in some cases downright unsuitable pers promoted/appointed.  Makes me pine for the days of the quality control line.

 

[xbowhntr]

Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone has info regarding an apparent CANFORGEN that was released some time ago regarding MOC course recourses now deferring promotion time.

Thanks!

 

[Puss in Boots]

Hey!

  Not sure if you recieved a response but these two CANFORGENS may be related to your question. Unfortunately, they can only be viewed through the intranet:

http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2004/111-04_e.asp

http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2009/142-09_e.asp

Here is the complete list of CANFORGEN Messages:  http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/intro_e.asp