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RCMP Commissioner Lucki Stepping Down

So this is what I don't get...

Here's an applicant that's smart, in good shape, sounds like he has the social skills necessary to get along with people, does volunteer work, and is already familiar with our typical client base due to him working in social work.

Sounds like an ideal candidate, and he's applying during a time when applications are at an all time low.

And yet...he doesn't get in. Why??



Or Booter, your Korean friend. Same deal.

Hes a great guy, would make a great member - and you would absolutely know if he would fit in well or not, and you suggest he would.

An agency desperate for people, with some detachments running at 40% to 60% of the ideal number of officers to be posted there.

And yet, he doesn't get in...



I know applications are at an all time low across the country.

EPS has very few good applicants these days, to the point where their recruiters just spent a week in Toronto attending career fairs to try to get some applicants.


But this problem seems to be greatly exasperated by turning away the good applicants that are applying...
interesting question. my job (bout 750 cops) seems to rely a lot on one recruiter. one background checker. and I think this brings in bias. might be different for the larger forces, definitely could be more problematic when you job has under a couple of hundred people..........interested to hear other's experience here. I too have known some good people that just could not get hired......
 
Or it could just boil down to a poor interview. Some jobs, it doesn’t matter what your CV looks like, if you don’t hit all the points their looking for on the interview, you don’t get a call back. 🤷‍♂️

Been there, done that, didn’t get the t-shirt. 🤦‍♂️

Don't know how the do them now, but I remember mine with the Dept. of Emergency Service. There was no internet to look up what to expect, so I put on a suit, shined my shoes, and went in with a smile.

They were downright rude. Barely acknowledged, or looked me in the eye. Some questions had nothing to do with the job. Lot of personal stuff. No handshakes or hello / goodbyes. Just a dismissal.

Not a pleasant experience. But, I got a phone call saying I got the T-shirt. That's all that mattered.

Later on, after probation, they were nice guys. "We were just fu%in with ya." :)
 
Don't know how the do them now, but I remember mine with the Dept. of Emergency Service. There was no internet to look up what to expect, so I put on a suit, shined my shoes, and went in with a smile.

They were downright rude. Barely acknowledged, or looked me in the eye. Some questions had nothing to do with the job. Lot of personal stuff. No handshakes or hello / goodbyes. Just a dismissal.

Not a pleasant experience. But, I got a phone call saying I got the T-shirt. That's all that mattered.

Later on, after probation, they were nice guys. "We were just fu%in with ya." :)
A lot of places have moved to a “competency-based interview”. Basically, “tell us about a time you did x”. And in your answer, you had best hit all the points they’re looking for, or you’re not advancing. If you’re terrible at or get nervous during interviewing, don’t like blowing your own horn, or hate telling a story in minute detail, this can be a roadblock to advancing in an application process even with a stellar CV and character references up the wazoo. Although the interview feels subjective, your responses are objectively measured, so it’s easy to see how “good applicants” appear to get shafted when they actually thundered the interview.
 
So I just found out that another one of my volunteers has been rejected by the RCMP. He speaks 3 languages, physically fit, no debt, in charge of the security and first aid at a high profile Jewish school here. Lots of security experience at malls. Speaking to my RCMP friend, he has a relative and friend both coming out of the military with around 15 years experience each, no debt and both rejected by the RCMP. One back east was told that he could not appeal his rejection, despite the rejection email clearly stating that it is his right to.

RCMP is their own worst enemy. Likely looking for Trans-Unicorns
 
This is a background check/security failure.
Kinda has that vibe to me too. There are plenty of decent but not overly impressive people getting into policing. If someone isn’t getting picked up despite a seemingly excellent CV, I always wonder what we don’t know about but the recruiters do.
 
the appeal line and having that not apply is the security one - that’s the one that used to be in the disclosure around the polygraph results. But polygraph is out- so it’s something along those lines where that still applies. Just at first blush what I see anyways. 🤷‍♀️
 
This is a background check/security failure.
The candidate admitted to doing something dumb during his army days, not super dumb, but a chargeable offence, which the military did not consider worth charging them for. That was mentioned as the major issue by the recruiter. By that standard, most of us could not apply.
 
The candidate admitted to doing something dumb during his army days, not super dumb, but a chargeable offence, which the military did not consider worth charging them for. That was mentioned as the major issue by the recruiter. By that standard, most of us could not apply.
That makes sense- like from the process standpoint. Not that I agree with it.
 
When I was a CAF recruiter we used to get angry parents (mostly serving CAF) come in and have meltdowns in the office over their kid not getting in. At that time a lot of it was drug use. We weren’t allowed to divulge anything. Parents love their kids but they don’t always know them as well as they think they do…
 
When I was a CAF recruiter we used to get angry parents (mostly serving CAF) come in and have meltdowns in the office over their kid not getting in. At that time a lot of it was drug use. We weren’t allowed to divulge anything. Parents love their kids but they don’t always know them as well as they think they do…

Damn, sorry dude. I told a few I was jammed up and "come back on Tuesday night", I didn't think they'd listen.
 
Police foundations is such a friggin’ scam. I remember when I was doing my degree, before ever getting in, we had a senior police officer come and talk to one of my classes. The subject of PF came up and he made a comment to the effect that about 10% of PF graduates would get into a police force reasonably immediately, and about 30% ever. The colleges must make a killing off of it.
One way to solve the problem of Police Foundations being a scam:

 
As far as the Province of Ontario goes, from the Tweet posted above, according to the Toronto Police website, the educational requirement,

Successfully completed at least four years of secondary school education or its equivalent (note: Official transcripts and diplomas will be required). Where education has been completed outside Ontario, official proof of equivalency must be obtained*

No mention of a " post-secondary education requirement. "
 
Is this good or bad ?

Could we not view our police colleges as a form of post secondary education ?
The police colleges are professional training institutes that train skills and knowledge narrowed to performing the job at a basic level with max supervision as part of your field coaching. They aren’t at all the same as the sort of deeper and broader academic knowledge being envisioned by those pushing for reform in police training.

What Ford is doing is simply and explicitly lowering the standards.
 
A college diploma doesn’t make someone competitive- it is a screening standard. Keeps some applicants out. But it’s a bit of a weird one to me. a young person with several years of experience and a trade should be just as welcome as 19 year old with a college diploma.
 
The police colleges are professional training institutes that train skills and knowledge narrowed to performing the job at a basic level with max supervision as part of your field coaching. They aren’t at all the same as the sort of deeper and broader academic knowledge being envisioned by those pushing for reform in police training.

What Ford is doing is simply and explicitly lowering the standards.

You're the SME here, and I will admit my bias in my belief that we over value the necessity of a post secondary education for many professions.

Perhaps this is part of our general over expectation of what services a LEA should provide ?
 
As far as the Province of Ontario goes, from the Tweet posted above, according to the Toronto Police website, the educational requirement,



No mention of a " post-secondary education requirement. "

The act that the Premier wishes to change is the Community Safety and Policing Act, 2019. That act includes the following as conditions that a person needs to meet to be appointed a police officer.

(f) meets one of the following conditions:
(i) he or she has,
(A) a university degree, or
(B) a degree from a college of applied arts and technology authorized to grant the degree,
(ii) he or she has a diploma or advanced diploma granted by a college of applied arts and technology following successful completion of a program that is the equivalent in class hours of a full-time program of at least four academic semesters,
(iii) he or she has been granted a certificate or other document by a post-secondary institution evidencing successful completion of a program that the regulations prescribe as being equivalent to a degree or diploma described in subclause (i) or (ii),
(iv) if additional criteria have been prescribed, he or she has a secondary school diploma and meets the additional criteria.

Why the difference between what the law says and what the Toronto Police require?

Because, as per the notice at the Ontario laws site

Note: THIS ACT IS NOT YET IN FORCE. It comes into force (except s. 100) on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor.

Why hasn't a four year old act not yet been proclaimed?

The Community Safety and Policing Act, despite being passed in 2019, is not yet in force because the government has not drawn up all of the associated regulations.
 
The act that the Premier wishes to change is the Community Safety and Policing Act, 2019. That act includes the following as conditions that a person needs to meet to be appointed a police officer.



Why the difference between what the law says and what the Toronto Police require?

Because, as per the notice at the Ontario laws site

Note: THIS ACT IS NOT YET IN FORCE. It comes into force (except s. 100) on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor.

Why hasn't a four year old act not yet been proclaimed?

Yes. They are announcing and juggling a few things at once. The Community Safety and Policing Act was legislated by the previous Liberal government but never enacted it before they fell. It has sat, entirely or almost so (there might be one or two sections related to Police Services Boards that were enacted) dormant on the books ever since. The 'why' is only known to the stars and insiders, but the current Conservatives were pretty keen on reversing just about everything Liberal that they could. Also, the new Act was much heavier in it's oversight of police services, being written during the heady days of BLM and 'defund' movements, and the Conservatives campaigned on 'public safety'. Subsequent budget cuts notwithstanding.

As a result of recently press about the POS OPP member still under paid suspension after many years and criminal convictions, they had previously announced that they were going to enact the legislation, but it contains the requirement for post-secondary education, so they have to introduce a Bill that amends that section. Post secondary education is currently not a legal requirement; although damn near a de facto one.

I don't know what government introduced tuition fees for the Ontario Police College but it pre-dates the current one. I think the logic was for recruits to have more skin in the game (and the government to save a bunch of money) and make it akin to any other post-secondary institution, which it clearly is not.
 
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