Reconstitution

[FJAG]

Sad to hear about the direction the Canadian cadet movement is taking, but not surprised. I was on the then Chief of Reserves and Cadets Council for eight years or so of the 00s and we spent only a smidgin more than zero time dealing with what were cadet issues. Most of those were respecting micro issues about specific cadet instructor problems and zero affecting the cadet movement writ large.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I don't think we take Cadets to sea anymore. At least not without their parents, on something like a tiger cruise.

There were RCSC on our ship once for a 2 week trip down to San Diego and the San Clemente gun line. ( that should give you an approximation of the year lol!!!). More than once we had to counsel sailors to stop being shockingly rude and ruthless with them. So if the cadets are no longer allowed at sea, that’s a good thing.

It is well past the point where there's an ability to reduce wear and tear on the ships. Their physical state is such that significant time and effort is required on even the ones in best condition to keep them limping along until the first of the River class arrives.

tie them alongside and de-constitute. This country’s Naval ambitions exceed the desire to serve from its youth.

 

[lenaitch]

I’m not sure what they would call that in the Navy, but I would say you are basically describing building a replacement ship, and ‘keeping’ all the serial numbers from the old one.

'That's grandpa's axe. I've replaced that handle and head a couple of times but it's still grandpa's axe'.

 

[Furniture]

tie them alongside and de-constitute. This country’s Naval ambitions exceed the desire to serve from its youth.

We are an export country, that's like telling someone to breath less because they have asthma....

We need to be a mature country, and find ways to get our people excited to serve at sea. It's not hard, we just need to focus less on the politically correct stuff, and focus back on adventure and experiences.

I have been to more "hot" tourist destinations as a foreign port on deployment, than most people can borrow money to see... London, Istanbul, Tokyo, Palma, Marmaris, Hawaii, Porto, Lisbon, Singapore, Busan, Kuala Lumpur, Mumbai, Edinburgh, etc... Convincing young people to get paid well and sail isn't hard, if we stop trying to sell the job as just another job.

 

[childs56]

DWPs (the period in dry dock) are done after every 2 or 3 deployments for a given ship, and were traditionally meant take approximately 1 year and cost a few 10s of millions of dollars.

We are now at DWPs taking 3+ years and $750 million.

How much of that is the shipyard dragging their feet and making more money for less work?
Or "the experts" deferring critical work for a year or five and then going wow we didn't know that was so bad.
It would be interesting to have a external audit performed on ship maintenance while in dry dock. See if the cost of the work is worth the performance of work.
We often live in our own bubbles and are not challenged outside of it. I wonder if the Dockyards and those running the show just have become complacent and not engaged into outside their comfort zones.
Around the world ships get major overhauls done, structural parts removed and damaged steel replaced. Maybe it is not something we generally do.
I have to ask where would damaged ships be taken and fixed should they sustain enemy fire/ hit a mine?

There were RCSC on our ship once for a 2 week trip down to San Diego and the San Clemente gun line. ( that should give you an approximation of the year lol!!!). More than once we had to counsel sailors to stop being shockingly rude and ruthless with them. So if the cadets are no longer allowed at sea, that’s a good thing.

tie them alongside and de-constitute. This country’s Naval ambitions exceed the desire to serve from its youth.

I was on the HMCS Saskatchewan and then the HMCS Huron as a Cadet. The only person who treated me bad was my own Cadet escort officer. Who had to pulled aside by my Navy buddy and be told to treat me better. Then when he got worse he was talked to by the XO then the CO.

Other then the boys trying to get me to dance on stage in Campo Alegro I was never threatened or had any mis adventures with the crew. They all treated me extremely well. One guy tried to get me to drive his rental Ferrari back to dealer for him in San Diego for him because he was to drunk to himself. The Duty Sailor did it for him.

It is sad to hear that Cadets were treated poorly on some trips. Those were great times and great experiences for young people to have.

​

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this but they've apparently quietly gone about doing away with the CFAT.

Now you don't need aptitude to be in the Military. Yay!

 

[Quirky]

Now you don't need aptitude to be in the Military. Yay!

Don’t need to be in physical shape, why not add mental.

 

[KevinB]

Don’t need to be in physical shape, why not add mental.

Round is a shape.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Round is a shape.

So is pear

 

[daftandbarmy]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this but they've apparently quietly gone about doing away with the CFAT.

Now you don't need aptitude to be in the Military. Yay!

 

[Furniture]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this but they've apparently quietly gone about doing away with the CFAT.

Now you don't need aptitude to be in the Military. Yay!

You still do a CFAT, you just do it at CFLRS rather than it being one more stumbling block to getting people to that stage.

The plan is to see if there is any significant difference in the pass rates at occupational schools for a year or two, to see if the CFAT actually accomplishes what we wanted it to.

Just like they are trying to find a way to make it possible for the Cmdt of a school to kick someone out of the CAF if they fail to live up to the expected standards before completing their occupation training. Making it a lot easier to remove the problems before they waste years of resources and have a significant negative impact on the people around them.

 

[Lumber]

How much of that is the shipyard dragging their feet and making more money for less work?
Or "the experts" deferring critical work for a year or five and then going wow we didn't know that was so bad.
It would be interesting to have a external audit performed on ship maintenance while in dry dock. See if the cost of the work is worth the performance of work.
We often live in our own bubbles and are not challenged outside of it. I wonder if the Dockyards and those running the show just have become complacent and not engaged into outside their comfort zones.
Around the world ships get major overhauls done, structural parts removed and damaged steel replaced. Maybe it is not something we generally do.
I have to ask where would damaged ships be taken and fixed should they sustain enemy fire/ hit a mine?

While I have no doubt there is some amount of "feet dragging", the majority of it is the result of actual issues that were not found until the ships were in refit. As an example, my ship had no idea that there were fist size holes in some longitudinals until we removed one of the chillers in the AER for repair and could see underneath it. That led to a emergency docking period to replace a large chunk of hull and braces. As a result, each ship is now required to conduct an "interim docking" period, ideally a year before refit. This is so that they can do a full hull survey and get a better idea of the scope of work.

 

[dimsum]

You still do a CFAT, you just do it at CFLRS rather than it being one more stumbling block to getting people to that stage.

The plan is to see if there is any significant difference in the pass rates at occupational schools for a year or two, to see if the CFAT actually accomplishes what we wanted it to.

Just like they are trying to find a way to make it possible for the Cmdt of a school to kick someone out of the CAF if they fail to live up to the expected standards before completing their occupation training. Making it a lot easier to remove the problems before they waste years of resources and have a significant negative impact on the people around them.

So to do that, does that mean people join as “undetermined trade”? Do pilot candidates, for example, go through the whole aircrew selection process but potentially fail the CFAT for pilot ?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

You still do a CFAT, you just do it at CFLRS rather than it being one more stumbling block to getting people to that stage.

The plan is to see if there is any significant difference in the pass rates at occupational schools for a year or two, to see if the CFAT actually accomplishes what we wanted it to.

Just like they are trying to find a way to make it possible for the Cmdt of a school to kick someone out of the CAF if they fail to live up to the expected standards before completing their occupation training. Making it a lot easier to remove the problems before they waste years of resources and have a significant negative impact on the people around them.

There are a whole bunch of legal and legislative reasons why that's a terrible idea. Sounds like the estimate will be situated

 

[Furniture]

There are a whole bunch of legal and legislative reasons why that's a terrible idea. Sounds like the estimate will be situated

That's why the CFAT thing is happening now, and the Cmdt booting people thing is being explored as a policy change.

 

[Rudburg]

So to do that, does that mean people join as “undetermined trade”? Do pilot candidates, for example, go through the whole aircrew selection process but potentially fail the CFAT for pilot ?

No, they still join a specific MOS.

In the case of aircrew, they still need to go through aircrew selection prior to enrolment. The challenge for the CFRG is that they can't use CFAT scores to prioritize applicants for aircrew selection, which is very resource intensive.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

No, they still join a specific MOS.

In the case of aircrew, they still need to go through aircrew selection prior to enrolment. The challenge for the CFRG is that they can't use CFAT scores to prioritize applicants for aircrew selection, which is very resource intensive.

Yeah, not a great look.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this but they've apparently quietly gone about doing away with the CFAT.

Now you don't need aptitude to be in the Military. Yay!

That test is flawed. I have met people who preformed in their trade with much success for years, released and when they went to get back in they couldn’t back into the trade they successfully did for a decade before due to not being able to get a high enough score.

 

[dapaterson]

The test is a predictor of success. And helps channel people into occupations where they will have a higher chance of being able to succeed.

 

[KevinB]

That test is flawed. I have met people who preformed in their trade with much success for years, released and when they went to get back in they couldn’t back into the trade they successfully did for a decade before due to not being able to get a high enough score.

You don’t need to redo the CFAT upon rejoining.