RMC Officer Sues to Avoid Saluting, Toasting Queen?

[Inch]

So?  What do you think of a Prime Minister or a Member of Parliament not being born in Canada?  Wouldn't that be the same thing?  "A Foreigner" making all of those political decisions for you in Ottawa, must really rile you up.    >

You mean foreigners like our last two Governors General? Or Vic Toews born in Paraguay, the president of the TB and former Minister of Justice?

But don't sweat it IGA, they're good people, they even swore an oath to our Queen to prove it.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

During the Tenure of our previous government, I was told that I had a sworn duty to the Minister, I told them that I had sworn an oath to Queen and country (several times I might add) and that took precedence over covering my Ministers butt, for some dumbass goof that he made.

What do you suppose "Minister of the Crown" means? That is how all Cabinet ministers are referred to, they take an oath to Elizabeth when they are sworn in at Government house.

 

[IGA]

I don't consider Mr Toews or Mrs Jean or any other MP or Gov. Gen. that was born outside of Canada to be foreign. If they have become a landed immigrant or Canadian citizen and are living in Canada, while they are in government. I don't know why you would get the impression that I would be riled up about any of them. At least not more so than any other MP

 

[Inch]

Born and raised and still live in Canada, too bad our head of state can't say the same thing.

You alluded to being born and raised as having to be a requirement to be the head of state. In a country as open and accepting to immigration as we are in Canada, I would think that it shouldn't matter where one is born, including our Queen.

 

[armyvern]

I know some awesome and outstanding Canadian citizens who weren't born & raised in Canada.

I also know some absolute nincompoops who were born & raised here, and I'd ship them out if I had the opportunity.

 

[vonGarvin]

As an aside, it is even possible for naturalised Canadians to swear or affirm allegiance to Her Majesty?

 

[IGA]

Inch, I said born and raised, too answer MedTech about not having to swear an oath. I too know many good Canadians not born in Canada, my mother and sister for 2. And I never said anyone had to be born and raised in Canada to be head of state. What have you got against a Canadian citizen who actually lives in Canada being head of state of Canada. And having our own monarchy and aristocracy is archaic  IMHO. Maybe we should issue muskets to the army and sailing ships to the navy 

 

[armyvern]

Inch, I said born and raised, too answer MedTech about not having to swear an oath. I too know many good Canadians not born in Canada, my mother and sister for 2. And I never said anyone had to be born and raised in Canada to be head of state. What have you got against a Canadian citizen who actually lives in Canada being head of state of Canada. And having our own monarchy and aristocracy is archaic  IMHO. Maybe we should issue muskets to the army and sailing ships to the navy 

What don't you understand, that despite the fact that some might think it archaic -- obviously the majority in this country, right now, do not??

Right now, in Canada, She is Our Queen.

If, and until, that changes --- it's our Duty, by virtue of the uniform that we wear, to uphold that Oath ... not to slander Her. Seems pretty friggin' simple to me.

So, perhaps this site isn't the best place to be debateing this topic -- being that if we are in uniform we should be keeping our personal thoughts and opinions on Our Queen to ourself; our not doing so is in contravention of the Orders and Code of Service Discipline that we are bound to follow.

 

[geo]

IGA...

Suggest you stop    :deadhorse:

 

[SupersonicMax]

Here's my take.  I hope I don't get too flamed for it...

I too believe the Monarchy is archaic.  Let's be practical and realistic.  The Queen does not practicaly govern our Country, nor does the GG.  The PM does.  I believe her "reign" over Canada is more symbolic than anything else.

Having said that, I still respect her for what she was for us and what she represents.  The traditions that we refer to in this post (Oath, Commission, Salute, etc) are all nice ways to remind us, Canadians, our heritage and where we're coming from.

But that's just my opinion!

Max

 

[George Wallace]

........  The Queen does not practicaly govern our Country, nor does the GG.  The PM does.  I believe her "reign" over Canada is more symbolic than anything else............

Interesting in your lack of knowledge of our Parliamentary System.  You are partial correct, but the fact still remains that it is the Crown's signature that is placed on any Act that Parliament passes.  It is the Queen's signature of approval on all the heraldry in the Canadian Forces.  Her "reign" may appear as only symbolic to some, but those are the ones who really have no idea of what her role is.

 

[armyvern]

He hasn't done DCE001 yet --- either that, or that must be one of the questions he got wrong.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Interesting in your lack of knowledge of our Parliamentary System.  You are partial correct, but the fact still remains that it is the Crown's signature that is placed on any Act that Parliament passes.  It is the Queen's signature of approval on all the heraldry in the Canadian Forces.  Her "reign" may appear as only symbolic to some, but those are the ones who really have no idea of what her role is.

I agree, but when is the last time the Queen, or GG for that matter, actually took a decision with regard to Canadian Politics, or refused to sign an Act?  

I know that theoratically she does govern us, but PRACTICALLY she doesn't!  

Max

 

[Occam]

What don't you understand, that despite the fact that some might think it archaic -- obviously the majority in this country, right now, do not??

I may have misread it, but if you're suggesting that the majority are in support of the monarchy as it exists today, you'd be wrong.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/28442/half_of_canadians_would_cut_ties_to_monarchy

53 per cent of respondents would support Canada ending its formal ties to the British monarchy...55 per cent of respondents said Canada should end its formal ties to the British monarchy if Prince Charles becomes King

 

[GIZMO]

Perhaps the Irish Forces is the place for this person.....

 

[SupersonicMax]

He hasn't done DCE001 yet --- either that, or that must be one of the questions he got wrong.

Done and Done.  And got a pretty good mark

 

[George Wallace]

I agree, but when is the last time the Queen, or GG for that matter, actually took a decision with regard to Canadian Politics, or refused to sign an Act?  

I know that theoratically she does govern us, but PRACTICALLY she doesn't!  

Max

Actually she does hold the right, but has left the decision making to Parliament, as she and her forebearers have done with the Parliaments of Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, etc. through agreements made over the passage of time.  As for not making a decision with regard to Canadian Politics, I do believe she has from time to time made some decisions outside of the 'advice' of Canadian 'suggestions' in relation to some matters pertaining to Canada.  Were they earth shaking decisions?  No.  But she did exercise her rights.

 

[armyvern]

I may have misread it, but if you're suggesting that the majority are in support of the monarchy as it exists today, you'd be wrong.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/28442/half_of_canadians_would_cut_ties_to_monarchy

53 per cent of respondents would support Canada ending its formal ties to the British monarchy...55 per cent of respondents said Canada should end its formal ties to the British monarchy if Prince Charles becomes King

Check your +/- ratio for that poll. That unscientific poll.

The vast majority of Canadians have not made this an election issue -- I'd wager that makes it moot to them -- acting in the typical, non-chalant, Canadian-like, not really care one way or the other manner.

If it's getting YOUR knickers in a twist, you are in the minority. This doesn't even cross the minority of Canadians radar as being an issue -- let alone cause the majority of Canadians to call for Her ouster.

 

[armyvern]

Done and Done.  And got a pretty good mark

Yeah me too on both fronts -- but I got that question right. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

Actually she does hold the right, but has left the decision making to Parliament, as she and her forebearers have done with the Parliaments of Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, etc. through agreements made over the passage of time.  As for not making a decision with regard to Canadian Politics, I do believe she has from time to time made some decisions outside of the 'advice' of Canadian 'suggestions' in relation to some matters pertaining to Canada.  Were they earth shaking decisions?  No.  But she did exercise her rights.

Right, that's why I say she has theoratical power over us, but never really uses it.  That means the practical power is to the PM and the Parliment.  

I think there is a distinction between theoratical/legal and practical.  Theoratically, the CDS could take every decisions for every commander in the CFs.  Practically, he doesn't.

Max