ROTP 2008 - Limbo for a year?

[trentonmilwife]

Since the first round of acceptances seem to have made their way to some applicants now and there seems to be enough of us who are a bit surprised (maybe shocked or for those who wanted one last summer off, happy) about how we won't be doing IAP this summer and instead will just get sworn in in August, do a year of school and then head off to St Jean next May for BMOQ (btw does anyone know when this name was put in place, I still remember IAP+BOTP/BOTC).

Now for those of you going to RMC, this might not seem so bad, as in Sept you will have your Orientation, get your kit, learn the rules, drills, PT etc. But for those of us who are at Civi-U what are we supposed to do???

For example, we will all be de-regulated from our provincial health systems, but won't have an id card to go to sick parade (which if i wasnt already living on an a base, how on earth would i know what MIR was???). I will have to go in Civi's since I won't have any kit or uniform. I will have fun explaining to the base gym that i'm a member just don't have much proof and god forbid I forget where and when I am to salute (lucky for me, my husband's unit have all sat there jokingly told me that I don't need to salute them and that will "take it easy" on me until I have my basic course to learn the ins and outs)

Then to make matters worse, some CFRCs managed to get their 3rd year ROTP applicants on a BMOQ course this summer, while others said that no that wasn't possible and that it didn't matter if you were a 3rd or 1st year student, you all had to wait until next summer. Where is the consistency???

For an organization that is desperate to get bodies in, why the limbo for the first year??? Also why pay for a years salary and tuition if someone can't pass basis...this just doesn't make any sense!

Is there anywhere those of us who got told to sit tight for 14 months can go to make sure we don't look like morons next summer beside those who got the training all school year? (and please no "well you should've gone to RMC" jokes as its not always an option for everyone)

 

[scoutfinch]

1.  Have you been told you won't have an ID card?  I think it is highly unlikely that you won't.  Do you really think that no one else has thought about these things?

2.  My (limited) experience has been that you attend MIR in your dress of the day.  If that is civies, then you wear civies... and yes, I have attended MIR/Dental/OR in civies because it was my dress of the day.

3.  You indicated that you won't have uniforms, thus no head dress which makes the whole saluting issue moot.
,
4.  The base gym will accept your id.  In the event there is a problem, have the recruiting centre deal with the issue.

5.  Chill out.  You will get kitted out like everyone else at the appropriate time.  You will get trained like everyone else at the appropriate time.  This isn't about you, it is about the requirements of the service.  If you don't like the arrangements, don't join.  No one is forcing you to take the free tuition, free training and guaranteed job.

 

[trentonmilwife]

Scoutfinch, i see that the tone I was trying to convey didn't come across as I would've hoped. I'm not sitting here bitching, I'm sitting here wondering why was I told one thing and now in a week everything has changed and I was looking for information as to how I can ensure that I'm not going to get charged for something I didn't know about because I haven't had any information given to me.

I realise that I will get trained when they can train me, however waiting a year after you get sworn seems a little long.

Also I was told that they had no idea if I would get an ID card before BMOQ, since St Jean normally handles new recruit set up (everything from dog tags, ID cards, your pers file, your uniform, your pay etc), and since I'm not attending RMC, they weren't sure what the new protocol would be for someone like me, so when you hear something like that it makes you wonder well did someone forget about the Civi-U kids???

3.  You indicated that you won't have uniforms, thus no head dress which makes the whole saluting issue moot.

you prove my point about things that I should know, but won't be taught for the next year.

I am thankful that I will have my last year of school subsidized and i am thankful that I will have a chance to have a career of my own as I support my husband's career as well.  I just am finding it odd that others in the same boat as me were able to get on the May5th BMOQ, while others weren't and I know that at times when changes come down there are lots of "things to iron out" and I'm just trying to get information and see if "anyone else has thought about these things"

 

[scoutfinch]

I understand where you are coming from and the frustration that goes with the changes... but at the end of the day, it all works out.  No one will be left in an untenable position.  If the problem hasn't already come up on someone's radar, a fix will be found when it does.

Remember the key to saving your own sanity can be summed up in one word:  flexibility.  I am not suggesting that you aren't being flexible, just advising you to roll with the punches.  Don't get stressed out about things over which you have no control.  It only impedes the problem solving process.

Ride the wave....

 

[Rowshambow]

Since you are going to Civi U, you should have (ask the rec center) a ULO (unit Liason Officer), you will belong to a BTL (Base Training List) where you will prob have to show up to work everyday and do umm...well "paperwork" get familiiar with the term PA (put away) it will be something the clerk you are working for will have you do! As for the uniform, last year when I was talking to the BTL clerk, he had 2 people who went to U of A who were awaiting basic, they had uniforms etc, the clerk had 1 of his other civi u pers show them how to put it on etc (although I am sure your hubby could show you). Good luck, have fun and watch out for papercuts!

 

[ballz]

Ok now I'm all worried.... What's this talk about doing paperwork and marches and stuff? I'm going through civie U, I've never heard anything about having to participate in marches or "show up to work everyday."

I thought I'd be just going to school for the next year collecting a monthly paycheque, and go to BMOQ next summer... Is that wrong?

 

[SMP]

Just chill out, things do eventually fall into place.

In my past experiences, a select number of candidate positions  for courses is initially offered to each region/brigade, if there are unfilled positions in some regions then they will fill the spots with cadidates from other units. I would think that the lack of BMOQ's would have something to do with a staff shortage, possibly due to the Vandoos being in Afghanistan. I can understand why they would opt to train those in their last years of university, as they need to complete the training sooner to get their commission than those in their first year. You're not the only one on this boat, so you won't look like a moron.

 

[dwalter]

Hey folks, I think everyone is feeling a little bit stressed about the new regulations, especially the ROTP applicants. I am one, so I know. First they stop telling most of us what trade we will be getting into until after BMOQ, then they start bumping people to the next summer's course. Well, I am almost done 1st year Civvi U, and I will be doing my basic training this summer. For people in first year, the simple fact is that there isn't enough room on courses this summer. The number of applicants (Remember both DEO and ROTP need training) outnumbers the number of available instructors.

As for people who are worried about not knowing the same as what the RMC cadets know, don't panic! IAP and BOTC are there to teach you everything from scratch. They are not going to expect you to know how to do drill or anything, because that would defeat the purpose of BASIC training. Everyone needs to learn from a standardized platform, even if they are messing with the system a little this year. We just have to think of ourselves as a Guinea pig year, and expect to hit all kinds of bumps along the way. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

 

[George Wallace]

Ok now I'm all worried.... What's this talk about doing paperwork and marches and stuff? I'm going through civie U, I've never heard anything about having to participate in marches or "show up to work everyday."

I thought I'd be just going to school for the next year collecting a monthly paycheque, and go to BMOQ next summer... Is that wrong?

???

Please pay attention to detail.

CANFORGEN 042/08

CANFORGEN 042/08

SUBJECT: REVISED PHYSICAL FITNESS TESTING POLICIES

REFERENCE: DAOD 5023-2, PHYSICAL FITNESS PROGRAM

1. I WILL BE ANNOUNCING, IN THE NEAR FUTURE, THE LAUNCH OF THE NEW
CANADIAN FORCES HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS STRATEGY, THE STRATEGIC
LEVEL GUIDANCE ON STRENGTHENING THE CULTURE OF HEALTH AND PHYSICAL
FITNESS ACROSS THE CF. THE STRATEGY WILL PROVIDE MOTIVATION,
AWARENESS, FACILITATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO ENHANCE AND SUSTAIN A
FIT AND HEALTHY FIGHTING FORCE

2. FUNDAMENTAL TO THE STRATEGY ARE CHANGES IN TWO AREAS. TO ENSURE
THAT YOU HAVE TIME TO PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THESE CHANGES, THESE
PROPOSED CHANGES ARE ANNOUNCED TODAY PRIOR TO THE LAUNCH OF THE NEW
STRATEGY. THE TWO AREAS ARE:

A. MANDATORY SCORING OF PHYSICAL FITNESS TESTING RESULTS ON CF
SELECTION BOARDS, AND

B. CANCELLATION OF POSTING LOCATION EXEMPTIONS FROM ANNUAL PHYSICAL
FITNESS TESTING

3. THE FIRST MAJOR DEPARTURE FROM CURRENT PRACTICE WILL BE TO
FORMALIZE THE REQUIREMENT TO INCLUDE MANDATORY CONSIDERATION AND
WEIGHTING OF INDIVIDUAL PHYSICAL FITNESS RESULTS AT CF SELECTION
BOARDS BEGINNING FOR MERIT BOARDS IN 2009. FITNESS SCORING AT MERIT
BOARDS WILL CONSIST OF TWO (2) POINTS FOR ACHIEVING AN EXEMPTION
LEVEL UNDER CF EXPRES, OR AN EQUIVALENT HIGHER STANDARD, ONE (1)
POINT FOR A PASS AND ZERO (0) POINTS FOR FAILING TO ACHIEVE ANY
STANDARD. TO THAT END, YOUR FITNESS RESULTS FOR THE NEXT YEAR WILL
BE USED AT MERIT BOARDS IN 2009

4. NEXT, THE DAOD AT REFERENCE CURRENTLY ALLOWS FOR CF PERSONNEL WHO
ARE POSTED TO LOCATIONS IN CANADA WHERE TESTING IS NOT FEASIBLE, OR
IN LOCATIONS OUTSIDE CANADA (OUTCAN) WHERE THERE ARE NO CERTIFIED
PSP STAFF EMPLOYED, TO BE EXEMPTED FROM ANNUAL PHYSICAL FITNESS
EVALUATIONS.  AS OF 1 APRIL 2008, LOCATION EXEMPTIONS FROM ANNUAL
FITNESS EVALUATIONS WILL CEASE. ALL CF PERSONNEL POSTED WITHIN
CANADA AND IN OUTCAN POSITIONS WILL BE SUBJECT TO ANNUAL TESTING AND
WILL BE EXPECTED TO EITHER ARRANGE SUCH TESTING THROUGH EXISTING PSP
SUPPORT IN SPECIFIC OUTCAN LOCATIONS, OR TO UNDERGO A TEST WHILE ON
A REGULARLY SCHEDULED DUTY-RELATED VISIT TO A FACILITY WITHIN CANADA
WHERE TESTING CAN BE CONDUCTED

5. IN CLOSING, THESE TWO CHANGES ARE THE FIRST IN A SERIES OF
CHANGES THAT WILL BE ANNOUNCED SHORTLY IN THE NEW CANADIAN FORCES
HEALTH AND FITNESS STRATEGY. SIMPLY PUT, IT WILL ENABLE OPERATIONAL
SUCCESS BY PROVIDING THE WAYS AND MEANS FOR ALL CF PERSONNEL TO
ATTAIN AND MAINTAIN THEIR PERSONAL HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS
SUFFICIENT TO MEET CF OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS AT HOME AND ABROAD

6. SIGNED BY GENERAL R.J. HILLIER, CHIEF OF THE DEFENCE STAFF

So!  You have 34 days to get into shape.    >

 

[trentonmilwife]

Since you are going to Civi U, you should have (ask the rec center) a ULO (unit Liason Officer), you will belong to a BTL (Base Training List) where you will prob have to show up to work everyday and do umm...well "paperwork" get familiiar with the term PA (put away) it will be something the clerk you are working for will have you do! As for the uniform, last year when I was talking to the BTL clerk, he had 2 people who went to U of A who were awaiting basic, they had uniforms etc, the clerk had 1 of his other civi u pers show them how to put it on etc (although I am sure your hubby could show you). Good luck, have fun and watch out for papercuts!

I've been told I'll be assigned to a ULO near September and but doesn't ULO stand for University Liason Officer (what the CFRC told me, just wondering)there aren't any in my town (I'm doing distance Civi-U) and yes I'm quite fortunate that I do know enough because of my hubby, but its not his job to teach me the regs and between training and deployment he will be away next year too, so i'm trying to figure it out before that.

Also I know that every year we must pass CF EXPRES Test, anyone know how that will work this year for ROTP as we've never even had our first test yet?

 

[trentonmilwife]

Just chill out, things do eventually fall into place.

In my past experiences, a select number of candidate positions  for courses is initially offered to each region/brigade, if there are unfilled positions in some regions then they will fill the spots with cadidates from other units. I would think that the lack of BMOQ's would have something to do with a staff shortage, possibly due to the Vandoos being in Afghanistan. I can understand why they would opt to train those in their last years of university, as they need to complete the training sooner to get their commission than those in their first year. You're not the only one on this boat, so you won't look like a moron.

I am in my last year of university...

 

[aesop081]

Don't people ask questions at the CFRC anymore ?

:

 

[ballz]

George are you saying I have 34 days until I have to do a fitness test?

CDN I've asked plenty of questions at the CFRC, in fact they're probably sick of me by now, but they failed to mention any of this.

 

[aesop081]

but they failed to mention any of this.

So go back and ask........Its not complicated

 

[trentonmilwife]

I have asked two differnt CFRC's all these questions and got two very very different responces...however they were unanimous as they said that anything past telling us that we have been selected for ROTP is our of their jurisdiction and that's it.... so we resort to the next best thing for information...the internet (but i'm not saying the internet is accurate...just sometimes you find what you need)

 

[aesop081]

I have asked two differnt CFRC's all these questions and got two very very different responces...however they were unanimous as they said that anything past telling us that we have been selected for ROTP is our of their jurisdiction and that's it.... so we resort to the next best thing for information...the internet (but i'm not saying the internet is accurate...just sometimes you find what you need)

Well now, you see, the next question for the CFRC would have been "To whom do i adress these questions then ?"

 

[Nfld Sapper]

George are you saying I have 34 days until I have to do a fitness test?

CDN I've asked plenty of questions at the CFRC, in fact they're probably sick of me by now, but they failed to mention any of this.

I highly doubt they would sick of you as it IS their job to answer any and all questions by potential recruits.

So go back and ask some more.

:

 

[George Wallace]

George are you saying I have 34 days until I have to do a fitness test?

Actually no, but as of 1 Apr 2008 (In 34 days) you will have to complete a CF Expres Test annually.  So, start now and stay in shape to pass the test, any time after 01 Apr 08 and before 31 Mar 2009.

 

[benny88]

      I heard that something like this happened a few years ago (RMC intake of 2006, IIRC) And I'm sure even if the Civvy-U kids were forgotten then, they'll be remembered now, because the system has experience with this. The world won't crumble, it may be slightly confusing, but in the grand scheme of your career, very minor.

 

[ChaosTheory]

When I got sworn in 2006 for the ROTP program in a civvy u, I had my IAP put off that summer so for that summer I was on LWOP till I started school.  It wasn't bad, I had my last free summer, went camping, relaxed and got ready for school.  I was posted to my ULO who is in Chilliwack whereas I am in Vancouver and that isn't any problem.  I didn't get any of my kit till I went to St. Jean last summer.  This summer I will be doing my BOTC/SLT.  They gave me a temporary ID card before I went to university as well they told us all of the basics one day, like how health insurance works, how to claim stuff like our tuition, what to do with problems with out pay et cetera.

So don't worry, they will tell you what you need to know now, so just sit back and relax.