Sergeant Major Marching Up & Down the Parade Square - Return to Spit & Polish

[Edward Campbell]

For me it is not a question of doing it "right" or doing it "wrong", it is a question of "more important things to do. I recently witnessed a USN change of command and they didn't run parade practice for 2 days and then used an entire day for parade and related events. They gathered everyone involved in a hangar, said a few words, signed documents and carried on. I would hardly accuse them of doing it "wrong".

We use enough of our soldier's time on things that really matter and often run short, let us not use more on things like parades and dog & pony shows for commanders to look over their fiefdoms. That sort of thing belongs in another time..........

I do not disagree that there might be better ways to do the right things and to do things right. Ceremonies, especially, can, perhaps even should evolve to suit our circumstances. What might be suitable for an infantry battalion may not fit a flying squadron. But, whatever we you decide to do, there is a "right" and "wrong" way to do it.

 

[aesop081]

. I've spent time in the AirForce and I've seen pilots on parade :

I've spent time in the army and seen soldiers on parade. Seems to me they fight very well regardless of their performance on the parade square.

 

[daftandbarmy]

With a degree of common sense applied which, I admit, seems to desert us in the military from time to time, I tend to agree with General George:

“If you can't get them to salute when they should salute and wear the clothes you tell them to wear, how are you going to get them to die for their country?”

General George S. Patton

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/if_you_can-t_get_them_to_salute_when_they_should/147747.html

 

[Pusser]

Again I'm seeing folks separating parades and spit and polish from all the other aspects of military service.  They're not separate and they're not additional.  Parades and spit and polish are part of the very fabric of military service.  We need to do all of it well.  If practice is required to do it well, then we should practice.  However, I will concede that perhaps we practice too much.  Far too often, the only ones really needing the practice are the officers in command positions who seem to have no clue how drill movements work ( :facepalm: it's not that freaking complicated!).

I was on a course years ago that included drill instruction for officers.  Many of my compatriots had a great deal of difficulty getting the commands right.  I concluded that they weren't very good at memorizing some of the more complicated ones, so I went to one of the "drill instructors" and suggested that perhaps teaching what the commands actually mean and how they function within the whole parade structure would help them to understand and, therefore, be able to better remember the commands.  In other words, if you know what "move to the right in column of route" actually means, it's easier to remember that than if it's just a string of words you have to put together at a certain point in the program.  I soon gathered from the blank look on their faces, that they didn't understand either.  Oh well...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but who wants to be the guy at his buddy's funeral who doesn't think spit and polish are important?  This stuff is an important part of who we are and the way we show our respect for ourselves.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've spent time in the army and seen soldiers on parade. Seems to me they fight very well regardless of their performance on the parade square.

However, their performance on the parade square is also of the same high standard. They do not exchange one for the other, rather they see it as a complete package of being a member in the CF. Which is why those combat soldiers, that fight very well, are also the CF standard for drill and deportment. They seem to be able to do both, with equal aplomb, regardless of any other burdens that are placed on them.

 

[aesop081]

Again I'm seeing folks separating parades and spit and polish from all the other aspects of military service. 

I am indeed separating the two. I separate them because i view parades as archaic and unnecessary. I do them and do them well because that is what is expected and, as long as it is so, i will continue to do them to the highest standard. I am all for traditions but i can think of many more important ones.

Parades remain a waste of mine and my soldier's time. We are not show horses.

 

[lethalLemon]

I am indeed separating the two. I separate them because i view parades as archaic and unnecessary. I do them and do them well because that is what is expected and, as long as it is so, i will continue to do them to the highest standard. I am all for traditions but i can think of many more important ones.

Parades remain a waste of mine and my soldier's time. We are not show horses.

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine who's a Trooper with The Blues & Royals... After the Trooping of the Guard for Her Majesty's birthday, he said he's never hated his life so much.

 

[Occam]

I am indeed separating the two. I separate them because i view parades as archaic and unnecessary. I do them and do them well because that is what is expected and, as long as it is so, i will continue to do them to the highest standard. I am all for traditions but i can think of many more important ones.

Parades remain a waste of mine and my soldier's time. We are not show horses.

Mark this date on the calendar, Cdn Aviator and I are in agreement on something.  ;D

Some weeks ago, over a hundred pers from Ottawa were tasked for a parade.  One full day's practice, and one full day for the parade.

A full day for a parade, you ask?

Yup.  Got bussed down to Kingston (two hours away) early in the morning, got a few practice runs in, got changed, did the parade, and returned.  Apparently the box lunches that were ordered didn't show up.

Neither did the bottled water.

The General got his promotion parade, though. 

 

[aesop081]

D and B that quote from WW2 reminds me of something I read about recruits selected for RCAF aircrew training practicing drill during the war. The instructor said, "How do you expect to bomb in formation, if you can't even walk in one!" 

It was a light-hearted Canadian book called "The Long and the short and the Tall: An Ordinary Airman's War" about the wartime RCAF by Robert Collins.

You do understand that flying and marching are 2 different things right ?

You do understand the way we fight wars have changed since 1945 ?

 

[aesop081]

Missed that.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Every time someone protests doing drill on the forum, you'd think people were expecting this from our service members instead of simply crisp uniform foot and weapon drill that they were taught in Basic training.

 

[aesop081]

Every time someone protests doing drill on the forum, you'd think people were expecting this from our service members

Yes, clearly that is what i am expecting.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Every time someone protests doing drill on the forum, you'd think people were expecting this from our service members instead of simply crisp uniform foot and weapon drill that they were taught in Basic training.

Maybe not, but that's what it feels like at times..... enjoyed the video otherwise.  Thanks.

 

[SupersonicMax]

You're paid to do a ******* job. And "to do that job properly" also includes staying current and precise in ALL aspects of your job, including drill and deportment.

Want to fly and be a gluebag? Join Air Canada. I've got no time for Tom Hank's Top Gun wannabees.

I'm a military pilot.  Not an Airline Pilot.  Slight difference.  I don't want to join Air Canada.

Say I'm in the QRA 2 times a week on average, I fly 1 Red Air mission, during which I emulate enemy aircraft and armament and perhaps I fly 1 "blue air" mission (if we don't do Force Employment ie: CAS for the army, TASMO for the Navy), meaning on average, if I am lucky, I will fly 1 training mission a week.  Considering we have about 6 disciplines we need to be proficient at (BFM, ACM, AWI, DCA, CAS and AI) and they all are very perishable skills.  That means in month I never train in all 6 disciplines. We keep proficient using spare time flying the simulator or hitting the books, when you can spare time away from your secondary duties.  I work on average 10-12 hours a day (not including the 24hrs everytime you are in the QRA) and we can barely maintain a good tactical standard.  And you want us to sacrifice some of this time to do drill and shine shoes? 

Again, I can do my job fine and I expect the same from other.  Dress is definately not of any importance, given the nature of our operations.  Attitude is 1000 times more important.

Thankfully, my boss thinks the same....

 

[Neill McKay]

I can sympathize with those who have been subjected to day-long parades, and days-long preparation for them.  I overheard a comment at the Freedom of the City parade in Halifax last summer that captured the spirit of it: "Nothing like a parade, when you're not in it!".

But I come down on the side of there being some value to drill.  Parades in front of the public are important in reminding the public that they have armed forces, and allowing them to connect with us.  The ultimate purpose of the armed forces is to be able to conduct operations but it's important to build public awareness and support (especially when there isn't a heavily broadcast war under way).  This is one of the ways we do it.

Drill itself (irrespective of any show you put on with it) also has a training purpose in that it builds a framework of immediate reaction to commands in a set way.  "Right - DRESS" isn't fundamentally different from "Starboard fifteen" or "On water, check foam and pattern"; each requires exactly one response, right away, without anyone taking time to second-guess it.

 

[aesop081]

  This is one of the ways we do it.

Surely, there are better ways of doing that than by prancing around like ponies.

each requires exactly one response, right away, without anyone taking time to second-guess it.

I did not learn to obey commands from learning drill.

"he's the boss, do what he says" was more than enough. Teaching drill to recruits accomplishes nothing more than showing them what they need to do for ceremonies. Good officers and NCOs would have their commands followed without hesitation even without drill classes.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Just sayin' is all ...

 

[krustyrl]

Meh...HRH won't mind, he is in the Air Element too.!   

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Just sayin' is all ...

What kind of friggin' dance is that front rank doing?

 

[Edward Campbell]

What kind of friggin' dance is that front rank doing?

The result of insufficient practice, perhaps?