• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

bossi

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
410
I saw a tiny bit of the Ombudsman's report on live TV today - not enough to be able to comment intelligently.
However, if this Toronto Star article is correct, then it is unfortunate that whomever destroyed the original letter will not be brought to justice (i.e. not only must justice be done, but it must be seen to be done).

Aug. 13, 02:00 EDT  
Report could tarnish military
Allan Thompson
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWA - Canada's armed forces will likely get another black eye with today's release of a report by military Ombudsman André ?arin.

In 300 pages, the ombudsman reviews complaints by a communications officer who alleged he became subject to reprisal after accusing a senior officer of acting improperly.

Capt. Bruce Poulin was a speechwriter at army headquarters in 1996 when he wrote a memo to then deputy army commander, Maj.-Gen. Bill Leach, saying he saw another officer harass a female officer.

The officer Poulin accused of wrongdoing was Col. Serge Labb鬠who led the ill-fated 1993 Canadian Airborne Regiment mission to Somalia. On that mission, one Somali was mysteriously shot dead, another was tortured and killed and a coverup alleged. An investigation took place and the regiment was disbanded.

Poulin alleged Labbé ¨ad sexually harassed a waitress at a mess in the military college Labbé £ommanded that Poulin attended.

Eventually, military police cleared Labbé ¯f the allegations and dismissed the claim Leach had failed to properly investigate the charges initially.

Leach has since retired from the forces. Labbé £ontinues to serve.

In a July, 1996, memo - which Leach later said he never saw - Poulin said he saw Labbé ­aking unwanted sexual advances toward the young woman in the college mess.

Poulin says he hand-delivered his 1996 memo to Leach. Excerpts from Poulin's diary, later given to military police, suggest he also told then chief of defence Maurice Baril.

No probe was launched until Poulin's memo was leaked to the media in 1998. By then, Leach was a lieutenant-general and the army commander.

Military police then probed the allegations against Labbé®Â They separately investigated whether Leach mishandled the investigation but apparently waited several months before seeking a copy of Poulin's memo, which mysteriously disappeared.

Poulin was accused of leaking information to the media. In a news release, he said he found himself ``alone and isolated'' after his allegations became public. ``I had dared to question the behaviour of the `best colonel in the army' . . .'' he said.

Military documents already made public revealed several people recalled talking to Leach about Poulin's memo or remembered seeing the document in his office - though Leach said he had not read it.
 

RCA

Sr. Member
Reaction score
1
Points
230
and the beat goes on

ethics my ***

Master Blaster, you called it.
 
T

the patriot

Guest
Um, one count of Conduct Unbecoming of a Canadian Forces Member. Anyone, anyone?! I second, and third that motion (this isn‘t being given Royal Assent is it?!). :(

-the patriot- :cdn:
 
R

rcrman

Guest
I smell B***S***! Something stinks and I am glad that the Ombudsman is now finding that out. Get the Frebreze going in the halls of NDHQ, crack some windows open...get that smell out of there for once and for all!!! Man yet again...coverups and "sweeping under of rugs". Hasn‘t the public heard enough of this crap? And we wonder why their isn‘t proper funding or public interest in the military these days. "Yes please, I‘ll take two black eyes once again...just like 1994/95 era"
I say air out these problems...and charge these top brass d***s who do absolutely nothing except advance their careers! Maybe some of these Generals who seem to have "horse-blinders" on while in key positions, while dealing with problems should look at their "Principles of Leadership" Cards and their Commission Officer Scrolls now and then!! Man that pisses me off! And hell yes everyone who signs the dotted line should/is accountable under QR&O and NDA, Code of Service Discipline, etc...Does Leach, like others have SELECTIVE AMNESIA???????? Does anyone know? Maybe it‘s just me?
:skull: skull: :skull: skull: :fifty:

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
3,966
Points
1,160
Does anyone agree with me in that a soldier who falsely accuses another soldier of sexual harassment (and if obviously caught) should they themselves be charged and dishonourably discharged from the military?
 
H

humint

Guest
Well, I agree that something should be done. May be not discharged, but severely reprimanded.
 

Zoomie

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
180
Points
680
In fact, under the whole SHARP (or whatever they call it this week) policy, there is a clause for malicious/false claims. If a claimant falsely accuses another of harassment, he/she can be charged. If it was simply a case of misunderstanding, then there are no problems.
 

PMedMoe

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
792
Points
940
An Edmonton reserve unit soldier convicted of raping a female recruit at a party following a basic training course was sentenced to three years in prison yesterday.

After Master Cpl. Orman Boyd Savage, 38, was handcuffed in court and led away by sheriffs, the victim of the 2004 assault said she can now finally get on with her life.

Article Link

 

geo

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Well, he was found guilty by a jury of his peers...
Three years in the can
Good riddance to bad rubbish!  We don't need people who can't keep their dick under control
 

GUNS

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
210
Geo,
1+ to your comment.

What I don't understand is that DND failed to respond to the lady's statement that, this is a on going problem within the CF and its "hushed up".
 

c_canuk

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
210
maybe they did, but the media decided not to publish it...

as someone who has instructed on BMQ/SQ in the past the idea that an instructor could take advantage of their power over the students like this sickens me.

If he did it, he should have gotten a lot more than 3 years.

I do wonder why it took over 3 years for this to be concluded. That seems like a long time to me.
 

geo

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
0
Points
410
WRT ongoing problem & hushed-up allegations...

Am certain that this lady felt that she couldn't be the only one to have ever been assaulted in same said manner.... you mix young men with young women, throw in some booze & let the hormones take over... put it on auto-pilot and VOILA!

Does consentual sex happen within the military... you betcha...
However, once a relationship turns sour, does the consentual sex remain consentual?

WRT the "hushed up"... it is common practice to advise complainant AND accused not to talk (gossip) to anyone about the incident - in order to make the investigator's work easier.  Allowing him the chance to find untainted witnesses.  If no one other than the investigator is talking about it - is it being hushed up?.... NO!
 

PMedMoe

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
792
Points
940
c_canuk said:
as someone who has instructed on BMQ/SQ in the past the idea that an instructor could take advantage of their power over the students like this sickens me.

As you see on the Military Court Martial website, people are often charged with "S. 95 NDA, ill-treated a person who by reason of rank was subordinate to him." which, I believe, includes sexual assault.

c_canuk said:
I do wonder why it took over 3 years for this to be concluded. That seems like a long time to me.

Probably took that long for the investigation.
 

PMedMoe

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
792
Points
940
geo said:
However, once a relationship turns sour, does the consentual sex remain consentual?

I think it may be unfair to the victim to assume this was a relationship that had gone sour.  This guy was married. (Yes, I know, it happens) Good thing it's not the U.S. Military as they can be charged for adultery.
 

geo

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Don't get me wrong... am not saying or insinuating that, in this case, this MCpl was fraternising to the point of having developed a relationship - but I have seen a couple of incidents in this area (LFQA) where it has happened.
 

scoutfinch

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
410
geo said:
Don't get me wrong... am not saying or insinuating that, in this case, this MCpl was fraternising to the point of having developed a relationship - but I have seen a couple of incidents in this area (LFQA) where it has happened.

Funny... Similar incidents have occurred in the past and sometimes the women have chosen not to complain to police. Does that have any impact on this particular case?  I don't think so.  Nor does your point.
 

armyvern

Army.ca Myth
Mentor
Reaction score
34
Points
530
PMedMoe said:
As you see on the Military Court Martial website, people are often charged with "S. 95 NDA, ill-treated a person who by reason of rank was subordinate to him." which, I believe, includes sexual assault.

Probably took that long for the investigation.

No it's not inclusive of the charge ... witness this link:

McDougall 27 Nov 2007

Click on the hyperlink to the charge sheet et voila:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/cmj/chargesheets/mcdougall.pdf

What irks me is the MSM and people once again saying shit like this is covered up, yet here we are posting links to publicly available information. This is really starting to piss me off.
 

PMedMoe

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
792
Points
940
I should have said the other charge (often) accompanies sexual assault when it's done by a person of higher rank to a person of lower rank.
 
Top