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SIC Scale of Issue/Entitlements (merged)

I would recommend people to read ERCO 701 (www.cadets.net/est/intro_e.asp - look it up in the library and then ERCO, you will be able to find it) which explains what should be issued to CIC officers. It has the references of D01, D02 and D03 I believe.

 

unfortunately that may have no relevance here in Ontario, as we are central region (CRCO's, CRCSO's) and that is an ERCO (Eastern Region Cadet Orders).  i know what i am entitled to as an Airforce Officer (CIC), i know it is probably published somewhere, although i havn't seen it yet.  then again i do only have the thin stripe and tons to learn.

PV
 
PViddy said:
unfortunately that may have no relevance here in Ontario, as we are central region (CRCO's, CRCSO's) and that is an ERCO (Eastern Region Cadet Orders).   i know what i am entitled to as an Airforce Officer (CIC), i know it is probably published somewhere, although i havn't seen it yet.   then again i do only have the thin stripe and tons to learn.

PV
CFS 8 D107 or D108 its in one of them and all units used to have a copy back when we still orderd with 2302's from supply.
 
2302's, now there's a blast from the past.  I'll chack and see if I have a copy in my records at the unit tonight.  I've been cleaning up files and came across alot of the recent supply info totally mis-filed by one of my predecessors.
 
CFS 8 is the supply book for cadets it states what a cadet unit, det, training center, or summer camp is entitled to 107-108 is the part that says what a cic officer is entitled to.
 
Jim Seggie said:
Perhaps when new pants are issued they can issue some common sense to those that need it.

Just my luck.... CIC not entitled to either item.  :facepalm:
 
myself.only said:
Just my luck.... CIC not entitled to either item.  :facepalm:

*not being facetious*

Why would they need them when there's tons of operational pers that should be getting them first? Like OD to cadpat, I'm sure it'll eventually trickle in.
 
Beadwindow 7 said:
*not being facetious*

Why would they need them when there's tons of operational pers that should be getting them first? Like OD to cadpat, I'm sure it'll eventually trickle in.

LCF
 
Just my luck.... CIC not entitled to either item 

"not entitled" is incorrect as this is just a design change.  Not being issued when old stock is still available, i would agree with.

PV
 
Why would they need them when there's tons of operational pers that should be getting them first? Like OD to cadpat, I'm sure it'll eventually trickle in

Exactly.
 
myself.only said:
Just my luck.... CIC not entitled to either item.  :facepalm:

/rant

The really big piss off in last fiscal year was the fact that, understandably CIC use only 2 uniforms for everything DEU and CADPAT but they don't require anything fancy or functional just to babysit a bunch of kids. (yes I'm aware there's more to it than that and some have prior mil svc... Etc.)

When I enrolled in the PRes, the 9erD enrolled in the CIC 3 days later. It took the PRes 3 months to fill my initial issue and there are things that I am still continually exchanging due to issues in sizing or have yet to receive entirely: I don't understand how when I told the Sup Tech that I wear a 14 collar, small/med T-shirt; I end up with 16 collar, everything in large. Boots are 2 sizes too big (then they took my issue boots because there aren't any). Yes, I am aware that CADPAT pants only come in 4-inch increments but to give a guy that barely fills a 30 waist size 38 pants is ***-backwards. I also still do not have DEU.

The Missus however received all of her CADPAT and DEU with 2 pairs of boots and shoes for each with all the bells and whistles the CIC are entitled to within 2wks of enrolment. I was a victim of the BMQ/SQ in Grey Coveralls and Running Shoes (or WWB)

I know some if not most RegF pers present and former still consider the PRes as the unwanted retarded red-headed step-child of the CF; but it's a huge morale killer.

/endrant
 
Beadwindow 7 said:
Why would they need them when there's tons of operational pers that should be getting them first?

Totally agree guys.  And honestly I was aiming for a joke about entitlement to common sense.


As for LCF... no try uniformity with the rest of the CAF.

Edited: to explain a joke.
 
PrairieThunder said:
/rant

The really big piss off in last fiscal year was the fact that, understandably CIC use only 2 uniforms for everything DEU and CADPAT but they don't require anything fancy or functional just to babysit a bunch of kids. (yes I'm aware there's more to it than that and some have prior mil svc... Etc.)
/endrant

OK my  :2c:

Guess that depends on what you define as fancy and functional.
One of my unit's OCdts was told she was not entitled to head dress as part of her initial issue.  I've been told I'm not entitled to a coat of any type.
But then again, yes I have met rare CIC officers who claim they went to CFB X and got rucks and everything else imaginable.

In the above cases, and what happened to you, I don't think we can blame anything other than a supply system that is inconsistent and inefficient.
And I'm appalled with these stories about Recruits undergoing trg without the proper boots.
But I don't think the blame rests with those people who got issued proper boots.

Furthermore, as an officer who spent most of his time only wearing combat clothing because I bought it from surplus stores like my cadets, I would put it to you that CIC officers are members of the CAF doing their task in their trade and should have the proper CAF uniform for the job. 
Just like everybody else in the CAF and that should be the endstate.
And if we start taking from one component or trade to issue to another we're not fixing the problem... next it will be socks or pants.


 
PrairieThunder said:
/rant

The really big piss off in last fiscal year was the fact that, understandably CIC use only 2 uniforms for everything DEU and CADPAT but they don't require anything fancy or functional just to babysit a bunch of kids. (yes I'm aware there's more to it than that and some have prior mil svc... Etc.)


/endrant

Maybe an apology is in order for the "babysitting" comment.
 
myself.only said:
As for LCF... no try uniformity with the rest of the CAF.

I'll take a shot in the dark that this quip wa directed at me. Too bad you did not read the entire response including the quote provided.

In the context of my post I quoted someone saying:

Beadwindow 7 said:
*not being facetious*

Why would they need them when there's tons of operational pers that should be getting them first?Like OD to cadpat, I'm sure it'll eventually trickle in.

To wit I responded:

Nerf herder said:

I recall when CADPAT first came out at clothing stores, there was a few CIC Officers standing in line trying to exchange their OD to CADPAT. I'm surmising that seeing that the condition their combats were in the supply tech turned them away because they were still in great shape.

It was a blatant attempt to get the LCF of the new kit and nothing more. I'm sure with the release of the new style combats there will be someone out there trying to get some before their kit is really due to be exchanged.

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination saying that all CIC are like that, but we all know someone out there who would try it even though their kit is still GTG.

The last cadet corps I worked with the CO demanded that all CIC Officers wore DEU3B or 3C dependant on the weather for parade nights. His thoughts on this policy was "How can we set an example if the kids are in their tunics and we're standing around in combats".

Too bad more aren't like that IMHO...but I digress as I'm taking the thread OT.

Regards
 
That's what it was back when I was in cadets back in the early 90's.  Everyone wore DEU's except for our QM.  Which made perfect sense, since he was squirreled away down in a dirty legion basement most of the time.
 
Nerf herder said:
...

I recall when CADPAT first came out at clothing stores, there was a few CIC Officers standing in line trying to exchange their OD to CADPAT. I'm surmising that seeing that the condition their combats were in the supply tech turned them away because they were still in great shape.

It was a blatant attempt to get the LCF of the new kit and nothing more. I'm sure with the release of the new style combats there will be someone out there trying to get some before their kit is really due to be exchanged.
...

Regards

Nah; we turned them away because they simply were not f'n entitled to them.  Fact of the matter was that they were/are the lowest priority for operational kit.

That seems to be the big bit that most of them fail to grasp; that operational kit is issued on an entitlement basis to operational pers first and foremost and that once those pers are looked after ... the rest of the non-operatinal folks may follow.  Time to put on their big-girl panties and understand and accept that 'lil factoid.

Had a few of them throw temper tantrums at the counter stating how they were "part of the PRes now and therefore entitled to same kit" to which we had a printed scale of entitlement at the counter that we'd use to point out the "*see note 4" caveat and then the reading of note 4 stating "all PRes except members of the CIC".  There were enough of them trying to skive through for purely "LCF" purposes that we actually had to do that ... and then argue with them when they got caught.  Sad.

Want the same operational kit as the rest of us who actually do operations, then wait your turn at the back of the bus until the operational folks have it.  Don't like that wait?  CT because, like it or not, one of these things is NOT like the others.
 
ArmyVern said:
...the big bit that most of them fail to grasp; that operational kit is issued on an entitlement basis to operational pers first and foremost and that once those pers are looked after ... the rest of the non-operatinal folks may follow. 

Hey, if we're going to jump into sweeping generalizations, I can't say I've ever met a CIC officer that thought that they took priority over operational pers on anything.

Most of the CIC I've met went to clothing stores on a rumour after seeing another officer wearing item X, not surprising since they never see anything official about new kit and entitlement changes.  And then their experience at clothing stores is a roll of the dice largely attributed to whether or not they got the right supply tech.

You say it's colossal ego.
I'd say frustration, next to no communication, and inconsistent service.

Of course, no matter which of us is correct, I'd wager that mutual respect would help overcome all of these troubles.
Make of that what you will.
 
myself.only said:
Hey, if we're going to jump into sweeping generalizations, I can't say I've ever met a CIC officer that thought that they took priority over operational pers on anything.

Most of the CIC I've met went to clothing stores on a rumour after seeing another officer wearing item X, not surprising since they never see anything official about new kit and entitlement changes.  And then their experience at clothing stores is a roll of the dice largely attributed to whether or not they got the right supply tech.

You say it's colossal ego.
I'd say frustration, next to no communication, and inconsistent service.

Of course, no matter which of us is correct, I'd wager that mutual respect would help overcome all of these troubles.
Make of that what you will.

As a sup tech who has worked the clothing counter as a tech, later been the CSG supervisor, and then later the MPO through numerous and many CTS initial issues - I have met MANY.  So many, in fact, that we had to print the scale and keep it at the counter to point out that factoid I mentioned to them.  They aren't a one-off in my world of work.

They never saw anything on entitlement changes exactly because their entitlement did NOT change; ergo:  there was zero to notify them about.  Makes sense to me.  Although, they also could also read CANFORGENs (and Routine Orders where we published CTS initial issue entitlements and priorities) like the rest of us are expected to do.

Big girl panties.  I respect most CIC Officers, but I do not respect the whiney LCF CIC Officers who throw tantrums and "I AM PRes therefore I AM entitled", and even outright lie about their status as some I have had actually claimed that they were not CIC, but 1RNBR etc, as they try to skive their way into kit they are not entitled to.  Blame it on the "right sup tech" if you want when really it's more aptly a matter of sup tech not confirming their actual status component in the PRes prior to issuing non-entitled kit.  Fact is:  those CIC actually got "the wrong sup sup tech".
 
I too have met many. The LCF is quite present, unfortunately.  The lying is just bad, and I have observed, and corrected members trying to pass themselves off as RMC Cadets in order to get shiny kit.

I would like to exchange my pants - they are a bit thin (6ish years old, and before anyone stands up and goes "OMG you did not combat in those pants), well, I have worn them for active activities in the bush....for several summers).  I could care less if they are the new pants, or the old pants, as long as I do, in fact, get pants. If the CF sees fit to offer me a uniform, then I will take what they give me and what I am entitled to.

Oh, and boots. But I realize that there is a boot shortage and ergo, the supplies other than too small steel toes should probably go to the people who need it. I just bought swats and nobody has said boo about it.

The nature of our job and component makes us a lower priority and this should be understood by our branch. It does not make us lesser officers (despite some people's needs to feel that way) but one with different priorities, functions and tasks.  If that means the suptech hands generation 1 Cadpat to me and some new pants to the pres member next to me? I'm just happy I have pants! And that the suptech didn't throw them at my head some guy did one time that I had to get a new jacket because it ripped on some left over barbed wire.

(Oh, and I wear my DEU more often than combats, except in the summer)



 
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