Supply Tech Ettiquette

[Gramps]

There were other factors involved that I would not feel comfortable discussing in an open forum. But you do raise some good points with sponsorship and the right iinfo required for the issue of kit.

 

[armyvern]

There were other factors involved that I would npt feel comfortable discussing in an open forum. But you do raise some good points with sponsorship and the right iinfo required for the issue of kit.

Feel free to pop me a PM then, and I'll see if I can provide further clarity/explanation/insight/ammunition. 

 

[Drif10]

Hmmm,

This sounds very interesting being that I spent six years posted to the very place that you are bitching about.

Besides being trade related scales of issue ... there are also OP related scales, task related scales, saftey equipment related scales ... etc etc.

For example, if one were tasked to Op Athena ... they have a sub scale of eqpt/clothing specific to that mission (or any other mission).

There is also a scale for members of DART, pers tasked to Alert etc etc. There is no scale specific to those tasked to Op Boxtop as everyone should already have their winter kit issued to them. If you've got winter kit that's 17 years old, that's because you failed to exchange it long ago. You see, the Air Force bases (ie Trenton) had gortex cadpat to issue out to ALL pers posted in Air Ops positions long before the Army did. Ask any Army guy on this site ... all the threads are out there "How come I can't get any gortex, but all the blue types have it already?"

If you're talking CasEvac, there's a scale for them too. If you're talking B25 flying-north-of-60 kit, there's a scale for that kit too.

There's something wrong with your story.

If you are indeed tasked into a position (ie you've got an official position number either on a message or via CFTPO) that requires specialized kit ... there's a scale for it and the entitlement does indeed exist.

It seems to me though that you are talking about deploying north-of-60 with old winter kit on an hours notice ... and my question to you therefore would be ... what old kit? Certainly not gortex as you were eligble to exchange your old stuff for gortex in the fall of 2004 in Trenton when the rest of the base switched out to gortex. Or are you one of the ones who just procrastinates and didn't do so, figuring 'what the heck will I ever need that for', and are now torqued because you got an hours notice and clothing didn't have the kit you needed to exchange in-house right now?? Seems to me, that after being entitled for 3 years ... waiting until an hour before it was actually required -- wouldn't make it either a clothing stores or scale problem. That would make it the indivduals problem.

Footwear?? What?? Exactly what kit are you talking about, because something isn't sitting right with your post?

Confrontational much?

Mukluks. Pride of '91. Same for the mitts. "They're still serviceable.."

Got the new cadpat. Tuque? Balaclave? Neck gaiter? Fleece? Cold weather gloves? "Not entitled"

Even without going north of 60, we live in Canada, ferchrissakes. Think that might be stuff that everyone might need here in the winter? "Not entitled". When every PTE coming in off their threes has all the gear, and someone who's been in twenty can't get it. Same goes for the militia guys. They get it, we don't.

We have army guys get posted in, can't draw gear because "the army is supposed to kit you guys".

The stuff in quotes are comments I personally witnessed.

As for the pte's in supply in Trenton, there's a couple of them that could seriously use some attitude adjusting. Their language and attitudes in dealing with customers has been appalling, to not only their peers but all the way up the rank chain. More than once I witnessed a captain or a sargeant get treated with ignorant comments and derision when trying to get kit exchanged. Because the pte had the power to tell them no, they sucked it up and got through the process, not necessarily leaving with the kit they needed.

In most cases, the spy techs I've dealt with have been good folks, trying to deal with what looks to be one seriously f%&^%d up system. Sucks that some are poisoning the well.

 

[riggermade]

Confrontational much?

Mukluks. Pride of '91. Same for the mitts. "They're still serviceable.."

Got the new cadpat. Tuque? Balaclave? Neck gaiter? Fleece? Cold weather gloves? "Not entitled"

Even without going north of 60, we live in Canada, ferchrissakes. Think that might be stuff that everyone might need here in the winter? "Not entitled". When every PTE coming in off their threes has all the gear, and someone who's been in twenty can't get it. Same goes for the militia guys. They get it, we don't.

We have army guys get posted in, can't draw gear because "the army is supposed to kit you guys".

The stuff in quotes are comments I personally witnessed.

As for the pte's in supply in Trenton, there's a couple of them that could seriously use some attitude adjusting. Their language and attitudes in dealing with customers has been appalling, to not only their peers but all the way up the rank chain. More than once I witnessed a captain or a sargeant get treated with ignorant comments and derision when trying to get kit exchanged. Because the pte had the power to tell them no, they sucked it up and got through the process, not necessarily leaving with the kit they needed.

In most cases, the spy techs I've dealt with have been good folks, trying to deal with what looks to be one seriously f%&^%d up system. Sucks that some are poisoning the well.

Vern

I will let you deal with this yet again because once again there is some Mcpl who knows it all and thinks that Sup Techs make the rules and you after dealing with alot of the people in Trenton can likely attest to the attitude that the young Pte's deal with in Trenton on a daily basis

 

[Roy Harding]

Confrontational much?

A quick review of her posts would show that she's only that way when necessary.

I have rarely seen Vern proved wrong when it comes to supply issues - perhaps you should read her post again and take her advice.

As for your witnessing of snarky Ptes in supply - your profile says you're a MCpl - what did YOU DO about it?


Roy

 

[vonGarvin]

op:

(THIS is gonna be a good one!)

>

 

[armyvern]

op:

(THIS is gonna be a good one!)

>

Giddy up. 

 

[armyvern]

Confrontational much?

Mukluks. Pride of '91. Same for the mitts. "They're still serviceable.."

Absolutely!! That's the exact same arctic kit us Army folk get!! There is no new crap other than this. So, you have what you are entitled to. What do you mean by being stuck with the old kit?? This IS the arctic kit.

Got the new cadpat. Tuque? Balaclave? Neck gaiter? Fleece? Cold weather gloves? "Not entitled"

Tuque, fleece balaclava, neck gaiter, fleece, cold weather gloves ... "not entilted"

100% correct again you are!! It works like this --

Imagine that you are an ARMY guy who's going out to the field in the pouring friggin' rain and you go into clothing stores and ask to exchange your olive drab rain gear for some cadpat raingear. Makes sense right? Well no, you'd NOT be entitled to it ... you see that cadpat raingear is Air Force kit from the Air Force's CEMS (Clothing & Equipment Millenium Standard) project which is bought and paid for using Air Force Budget monies. (Fleece, that includes the balaclava and neck gaiter BTW, -- it's not anti-stat so it's not on the Air Force scale ... is that the Sup Techs fault too??)

Just like the items above are Army CTS (Clothe the Soldier items) project items bought and paid for using Army Budget monies. So you, as an Air Force guy, are not entitled to it ... just like the Air Force won't issue their rain gear to some Army guy in an Army Unit.

Does this make sense to me ... sometimes it does -- you get what your enviornment pays for. Your CO wants to address it -- then he/she should be going after the Air Force to buy it for you. Certainly complaining to the Army that they won't issue you their kit is barking up the wrong tree -- after all, you wouldn't share the raingear.

Even without going north of 60, we live in Canada, ferchrissakes. Think that might be stuff that everyone might need here in the winter? "Not entitled". When every PTE coming in off their threes has all the gear, and someone who's been in twenty can't get it. Same goes for the militia guys. They get it, we don't.

Bud, stop it now. I did 7 months in Alert as the Zippo. The ONLY person on the station who was required to go outside each and every day, regardless of weather, year round. I was outside for hours at a time ... in -64 temps so that there'd be fuel in that day tank to keep everyone toasty warm and with electricity. It was 1998. I didn't have gortex!! I lived to tell about it!! You've got your gortex!! What gear are you talking about?? Mukluks and arctic mitts are the arctic gear and that's what you have!! Wet weather boots are NOT arctic boots -- trust me on that one -- I've actually got them (being that I'm Army and all). Surely to hell, you'll survive in nice old Trenton ... in those artic mitts and mukluks.

We have army guys get posted in, can't draw gear because "the army is supposed to kit you guys".

Army guys serving in Air Ops positions are not entitled to the Army Operational Clothing Scale (D01-301). They are issued their gortex etc by the Air Force. Look around you some more ... they even have CADPAT RAINGEAR; the lucky fellas. An Army girl like me, posted in Trenton, is not entitled to a ruck sack ... tac vest etc (not like I actually had to utilize them there) ...

The stuff in quotes are comments I personally witnessed.

Absolutely. The quotes are correct. If some Army guy on an Air Base ... in an Air Force position wants a rucksack or other Army Op kit ... the Air Force is going to have to build a scale of entitlement and have it approved based on there actually being a requirement for him to have that kit while serving there in that Air Force position.

As for the pte's in supply in Trenton, there's a couple of them that could seriously use some attitude adjusting. Their language and attitudes in dealing with customers has been appalling, to not only their peers but all the way up the rank chain. More than once I witnessed a captain or a sargeant get treated with ignorant comments and derision when trying to get kit exchanged. Because the pte had the power to tell them no, they sucked it up and got through the process, not necessarily leaving with the kit they needed.

I'd have said no to if they weren't entitled to the damn stuff. Saying no does NOT constitute "having a bad attitude" or "being ignorant" ... it just means that you aren't entitled to it -- kind of like what I'd have said to you when you asked for the new arctic kit -- which, hopefully, you now realize DOESN'T even EXIST.

#1 What did you do about it? and

#2 I've yet to meet a MCpl (or a Pte) who needed an attitude adjustment, or a customer for that matter ... it's always the 911ers fault. That's why we have such big shoulders for those who note our bad attitudes to cry on.  :

In most cases, the spy techs I've dealt with have been good folks, trying to deal with what looks to be one seriously f%&^%d up system. Sucks that some are poisoning the well.

And the 'emphasis-mine' bit above, only serves to reinforce #2 above. Your damn right I'm confrontational -- especially when people like you attempt to perpetrate the stereotypical myths because you are misinformed and have no desire to educate yourself.

Most clothing stores have a mirror right inside the door ... next time you go over there ... perhaps you should have a look in it and sort yourself out before you choke on your very own little poisoned pill -- just in case the clothing Pte's First Aid qualification may be expired. Tell Rebekah that I said hello ... and be sure to tell her which of her Pte's needs the attitude adjustment. (Edited to add: never mind -- I'll send her the link to this thread.)

Have a great day.

 

[Good2Golf]

Confrontational much?

Mukluks. Pride of '91. Same for the mitts. "They're still serviceable.."

Got the new cadpat. Tuque? Balaclave? Neck gaiter? Fleece? Cold weather gloves? "Not entitled"

Even without going north of 60, we live in Canada, ferchrissakes. Think that might be stuff that everyone might need here in the winter? "Not entitled". When every PTE coming in off their threes has all the gear, and someone who's been in twenty can't get it. Same goes for the militia guys. They get it, we don't.

We have army guys get posted in, can't draw gear because "the army is supposed to kit you guys".

The stuff in quotes are comments I personally witnessed.

As for the pte's in supply in Trenton, there's a couple of them that could seriously use some attitude adjusting. Their language and attitudes in dealing with customers has been appalling, to not only their peers but all the way up the rank chain. More than once I witnessed a captain or a sargeant get treated with ignorant comments and derision when trying to get kit exchanged. Because the pte had the power to tell them no, they sucked it up and got through the process, not necessarily leaving with the kit they needed.

In most cases, the spy techs I've dealt with have been good folks, trying to deal with what looks to be one seriously f%&^%d up system. Sucks that some are poisoning the well.

Try not to step on too many toes while you're doing this...  :

G2G

 

[geo]

NIce job of "firing for effect" Vern.

(Lookin good in your new avitar BTW)

 

[armyvern]

Try not to step on too many toes while you're doing this...  :

G2G

No worries G2G,

Drif10 is a purple trade guy who just happens to be posted to an Air Force Base right now. He's probably enjoying that AF cadpat raingear that we can't get at this very time. If he makes it back to an Army base before he manages to fight his way out of the CF ... then he'll get that Army kit.

Must run, got to work on trying to get it (that Army kit) for the Tac Hel guys who belong to the Air Force but support the Army -- they could actually use it. 

 

[Strike]

Must run, got to work on trying to get it (that Army kit) for the Tac Hel guys who belong to the Air Force but support the Army -- they could actually use it.

And THAT'S what I like to hear!

 

[TN2IC]

Okay Vern, here's a silly question.

Now the antistatic Air Force design is only for the Air Force... now what about an Army MSE Op that refuels aircrafts?  ;D
I want one of those fancy rain jackets.


Edit Part: "I have been denied that jacket before. Not entitled  "
Edit also for spelling

 

[Roy Harding]

Okay Vern, here's a silly question.

Now the anti-stastic Air Force design is only for the Air Force... now what about an Army MSE Op that refuels aircrafts?  ;D
I want one of those fancy rain jackets.

See here:

...
Army guys serving in Air Ops positions are not entitled to the Army Operational Clothing Scale (D01-301). They are issued their gortex etc by the Air Force. Look around you some more ... they even have CADPAT RAINGEAR; the lucky fellas. An Army girl like me, posted in Trenton, is not entitled to a ruck sack ... tac vest etc (not like I actually had to utilize them there) ...
...

It would be implied, I think, that if you are in Air Command (and the fact that you refuel aircraft implies such) that you ARE entitled.

If not, then this may be your solution: 

...
Your CO wants to address it -- then he/she should be going after the Air Force to buy it for you.
...

RTFQ, Sarge 

 

[Drif10]

Bud, stop it now. I did 7 months in Alert as the Zippo. The ONLY person on the station who was required to go outside each and every day, regardless of weather, year round. I was outside for hours at a time ... in -64 temps so that there'd be fuel in that day tank to keep everyone toasty warm and with electricity.

BFD.

And bull.

h20 does sampling every day.

Cat house is manned.

EC folks put up the balloons.

And so on.


Bet you're a peach on deployments.


Have a nice day.

 

[aesop081]

OK...

Can we please not add fuel to the fire with those popcorn emos ? As well, please refrain from comments that do not help the whole situation.

drift10.......please watch your tone

Milnet.ca staff

 

[Drif10]

drift10.......please watch your tone

Milnet.ca staff

Understood.

That's a two way street, is it not?

 

[armyvern]

BFD.

And bull.

h20 does sampling every day.

Cat house is manned.

EC folks put up the balloons.

And so on.


Bet you're a peach on deployments.


Have a nice day.

You'd better check with the WFEs on your above. Who do you think fills their tanks for them?

Do the ECs put their balloons up on red days? Nope. They don't leave the sanctuary of the main station, nor do some of the other posns you've mentioned above on red days. And, if they do launch the balloon -- it's a quick trip out and back inside. That's not the case with the Zippo.

You see, the Zippo runs the fuel from the flight line ... up to the station ... into the day tank (it's called a day tank for a reason -- in that it only holds enough fuel for 1.5 days supply) ... which is then run into the heating plant; that's where H2O takes over for heating the station, providing the power etc. They certainly are not outside doing that, but nice try.

Dude, they use the safety line to go from one building and into another to do their jobs. The zippo does their job outside for hours on end each and every day ... suggest that you read my post again. After the day tank, they've got the hazmat/POL tanks/PCBs to deal with ... daily -- none of which are located within the main building (or the Sup Whse for that matter). Do you know where the PCBs are located at? That's a lovely trip to them to inspect, measure and report each day -- especially on a nice stormy one.

I survived in the current (and only) arctic gear while working outside in the arctic in -64. You'll survive in Trenton. Even heavy eqpt has heaters in it these days no? It sure did in Alert.

I am just ducky on deployments BTW ... ask some of your co-workers who've been on tour with me. 

You also do a fine and peachy job of avoiding the issues. Funny how your call of BS on me (wrongly again) above doesn't even mention a hint of acknowledgement of erroneous information in your original post in this thread. Even I can admit when I'm wrong and apologize for it; something you seem incapable of. Sorry, but I'd take someone who's accountable for their statements and actions on tour with me every time. It's just so much more professional.

 

[armyvern]

Understood.

That's a two way street, is it not?

It certainly is, but calling BS to someone's post is not a problem in tone. Your post was filled with erroneous information and an unwarranted rant at a trade about not being able to get kit that does not even exist.

I corrected the facts for you. Quite often, some people take being corrected and learn from it ... others don't. Go figure.

 

[Greymatters]

We have army guys get posted in, can't draw gear because "the army is supposed to kit you guys". 

As an army guy who worked for years on air force bases, this is not surprising.  The techs are just following their regulations just like any other CF member.  Expecting them to provide gear without authorization is only going to get them into trouble, and long after you have got what you wanted and walked out the door, they will find their butts in a wringer if they do it. 

However, all problems can be sorted out if you follow the chain of command, get justification, get support from your OC's and CO's, give the techs some paperwork or some orders they can put on your docs and in their files, and finally, treat the techs with respect so they can try and meet you halfway.  From personal experience I can tell you it is sometimes a long process (but not always), and it can be done quite easily.