TDV -- Ex Stalwart Guardian

[c4th]

I found the episode quite satisfying. Sometimes I find TDV interesting but a bit dull - not this time.
Like others I was a bit jarred by the F word usage. Accurate, and hard to keep from slipping out, but not great publicity on public television.

I have yet to see the episode as I agree that TDV is usually dull.   As an infantry NCO I would rather have aggressive soldiers who smoke, swear, and break things.   Nannies need not apply.   The fact that the show and soldiers were apparently accurately portrayed and was not a bore, greatly outweighs a bit of colourful language. Far better than the lies or half-truths fed to potential recruits.   There is an old marketing maxim that 'there is no such thing as bad publicity.'

Keep in mind that Ex SG is an infantry centric ex, and will continue to be so in 2005.   That being said, I think my favorite support unit was the service bn who brought the showers.   Bravo Zulu!

"If the letter F was removed from the alphabet the Canadian Army would cease to be able to communicate."
                                                                                    - Hon Maj Durnford DSO
                                                                                      Padre, Seaforth Highlanders of C
                                                                                      Italy circa 1943

 

[Bomber]

That episode was lame.  To many guys saying F this and F that.  Grow up.  I enjoyed the commentary of "the soldiers "sense" when they are dead"  I saw a dug in enemy force of 15 guys shooting into a company assault, I only saw one guy being carried out on a ground sheet.  Looks like there was a lack of "sense" going on there.  I never saw a shower till the end of the ex when we were getting boned by the Service Battalion guys, and then it had an MP in it who had just woken up at 11 in the morning.  There were far more interesting things going on in that ex than some little raid pulled off by a single company.  What happened to the regiment of guns, or the airmobile live fire thing.  I know it happened, it blew the crap out of my cam nets for hours.  What about guys dropping form helicopters, or the MP's drinking timmies and wearing their little vests?  That episode should have been devoted to SG04, not India company's adventures in "Orangeland"  There were a couple of new capabilities being used on the ex, like the armoured recce guys and the arty using the mortars, both a bunch more exciting that what I saw on that show.

 

[Redeye]

That episode was lame.   To many guys saying F this and F that.   Grow up.   I enjoyed the commentary of "the soldiers "sense" when they are dead"   I saw a dug in enemy force of 15 guys shooting into a company assault, I only saw one guy being carried out on a ground sheet.  

You saw what the tape was edited to show you.  I'll tell you more of what happened, since I was there.

On that particular raid more than 20 casualties were declared by the O/Cs and umpires, including the Company Commander.  There was a proper casualty collection point and litter parties were there with improvised stretchers.  There was no "real" casualty simulation, but some troops were told they were injured and were treated as such.  The raid itself wasn't a raid - it was a platoon hasty attack, because our OC didn't like the plan they tried to force on him, and things changed once we hit the actual ORV.  It was a bit of confusion before we launched, but we got the enemy looking the wrong way and smashed them accordingly.

Most of the people on the raid portion were soldiers from my unit, and most of them are good troops.  So they swear, so what?  I did like the "sense" of being dead - that made me laugh.

 

[JasonH]

The times for when TDV is on for west coast is a god damn joke.  3pm in the afternoon and replays at 3am?  Wtf!

If I wanna watch it I'd hafto download the bloody show.  Very disappointed that they don't have it for later.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

What are you complaining about the bushcaps for? I have an american style bushcap. Its not like I was given a choice.

 

[Bomber]

"So they swear, so what?"

Swearing is part of the job, while you are doing it, fine.  When someone points a camera at you, do you tell them what an F ing great time you just had, nope.  Like at Christmas, "What a F ing wicked mother of a sweater that is grandma, I think the reindeers kick real MF ing ass."  See, but in private or to a buddy you can say "that sweater F ing blows"  I had no problem with people saying "hurry the F up" I have done this myself more times than I can count, but to look into a camera and go on like you just crapped in Rambo's special K, get it together and act more like a grown up.

 

[Redeye]

"So they swear, so what?"

Swearing is part of the job, while you are doing it, fine.   When someone points a camera at you, do you tell them what an F ing great time you just had, nope.   Like at Christmas, "What a F ing wicked mother of a sweater that is grandma, I think the reindeers kick real MF ing ***."   See, but in private or to a buddy you can say "that sweater F ing blows"   I had no problem with people saying "hurry the F up" I have done this myself more times than I can count, but to look into a camera and go on like you just crapped in Rambo's special K, get it together and act more like a grown up.

I'll agree with you on that - there was a few times when people did it right to the camera, and that wasn't entirely professional - there was a lot that was caught by the camera by people who were paying attention to what they were doing and not so much to the fact that the media was there.  We didn't have a clue they were even going to be on the objective, and because we hit the objective basically from behind, we ended up having the depth platoon assault right through the "media holding area".

Ultimately, I think it may just come down to editing - I know they shot a lot of footage, and if what they aired was the best they could find, that's unfortunate.  Some of that stuff (like the Corporal proudly explaining how being gate sentry for the hide means he gets to "slack off") was just awful, and it would have been nice if some military input could have been introduced into the editing to make sure things like that didn't get through.  That individual is very likely going to be receving a great deal of "correction" by my Regiment's chain of command.

"...crapped in Rambo's Special K..."  That's brilliant, I'm going to have to remember that one.

 

[Observer23]

Saying a colourful word in the heat of the moment because your number one on the machinegun just slammed the feed cover on your hand or you are attempting to motivate a group of slow folks in understandable. Trench chat about your alleged exploits with a member of the opposition sex during the last time you were at â Å“Sassy'sâ ? may require profanity to add validity and excitement to your statement.  This I can understand.

Performing for the camera is simply childish. Any monkey showing off just a get airtime or to get noticed can go back to kindergarten.  The only reason the profanity got so much airtime is because it is sensationalism.  The media isn't interested in complex things like the truth.  They are interested in a story.  A soldier describing the actions of his fellow soldiers in an organized action maybe found interesting to some.  Two yo-yos who cannot punctuate a sentence without swearing, that's entertainment for many.  So, are you a soldier doing an important job or a clown looking for a couple of cheap laughs?

 

[PViddy]

The opfor wearing US BDU is one thing(half of them where American), they where clearly marked in Red as "Orangelandians".  This issue is the guys from 33 LIB wearing American combat hats.  Unprofessional so far as I'm concerned.

I thought they were actually an American reserve unit on exchange ? a great episode though.


PV

 

[Jarnhamar]

This issue is the guys from 33 LIB wearing American combat hats.  Unprofessional so far as I'm concerned.

I was issued an american style bush hat in 1999. Much by accident mind you. One of the troops in my section  lost mine (after loosing his) and needed something to go to the mir with. He only had a helmet. Supply tech had one sitting on the counter, was lazy and issued it to me. I was issued one again in 2001.  If thats what your issued, it's what your issued.

I agree the reserves often seem to try and bend the dress code rules but you see the same thing in the regular force. Though, it's to a lesser extent.

Swearing is swearing, it's going to happen.  My opinion, some of the guys were trying to put on a 'hoorah hard core' show for the camera. Some people love that kida stuff. I think it looked a little fake and kinda stupid.  I'm confident I can do just a good job as the next guy without screaming my face off spitting when i yell or banging the hand guards on my C7 against my helmet, or forehead as i've seen happen.  "Some people need to work themselves up to do a job, others just do it."  (Thats a quote from one of the quietest most relaxed soldiers i've worked with, who topped the pathfinder course and if im not mistaken, sniper course from 3RCR)


I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to media, cameras or making shows.  Just making a guess here, I figure it would be a lot more work for a camera crew to go floating around a brigade constantly bugging the chain of command, getting in the way, trying to cover the whole ex. All the camera crew's i've seen hook up with a section or platoon and follow just them around. That way they know whats going on, whos who and can keep track of peoples names, home towns and shit like that for their stories.  Again, thats an uneducated guess.

On one hand you can have those PFAO (?) guys hold briefing after briefing telling the troops exactly what to say which makes interviwed soldiers seem like zombies. On the other hand you can just talk to the troops and get that false bravado stuff or troops being honest saying sentry means slacking off. I think finding some middle ground would be best.

 

[trajectomologist]

I'm gonna throw my hat in too.
I honestly think that there could have been a PAFFO (Public Affairs Officer) around just to brief the troops on what's alright to say in front of the public. NOT telling them exactly what to say, just to stick to the basics and try not to swear (yeah it does happen, I'm not saying it doesn't)
Unfortunately, what it breaks down to is, we as Canadians are a society that doesn't have alot of compasion for the CF. Remember 1995?
People see us for how media portrays us. I am not saying Canadians are a bunch of mindless idiots, but just stop and think about it for a moment... put yourself on the other side... you know nothing about the army... you see real army guys on TV swearing and saying they get to 'slack off' on sentry... what are you going to think? How would you feel about the CF? The reserves?
Yes, the show could have been edited better, or filmed better. There are quite a few options that we can look at.
It's unfortunate, but it happened.
TDV on the whole isn't a bad show. I've seen alot of great episodes.

It's awesome to have a sort of AAR like this, so maybe things can get better in the future.

 

[stukirkpatrick]

I know my own area stresses media relations a lot - for military exercises and recruiting events alike.   There is good reason for this, as the local media has a way of misinterpreting, or taking things out of context. An example of this was last year: my local newspaper had printed a story on the "soldier for a day" program with a large photo of participants pointing C7s at a demonstration of "rock-throwing protesters", as well as printing quotes from military members that were taken out of context.   We learned at a garrison-wide media relations lecture not long after that the reporter had confused the "rock-throwing scenario" with another one that took place the same day.