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The 2008 Canadian Election- Merged Thread

Michael O`Leary said:
How about some peer pressure? Let's try adding this to the process next time.

And for 4 days after the election,  nobody without the inked finger could 1)go into a bar 2)buy cigarettes 3) buy booze .... or the other things only adults are allowed to do.


Can you imagine the spike in voters if we did that?
 
In Australia, voting is compulsory. There is a $20 fine for not voting, and if you don't pay the fine, that rises to $50 plus court costs. I wonder about the reaction of Canadians if this was proposed for us.
 
ModlrMike said:
In Australia, voting is compulsory. There is a $20 fine for not voting, and if you don't pay the fine, that rises to $50 plus court costs. I wonder about the reaction of Canadians if this was proposed for us.
My gosh, they actually do that!

Why don't we?

Beav
 
Zell_Dietrich said:
And for 4 days after the election,  nobody without the inked finger could 1)go into a bar 2)buy cigarettes 3) buy booze .... or the other things only adults are allowed to do.


Can you imagine the spike in voters if we did that?

Like...you never heard of markers?  :)
 
Next election, if Scott Brison is running again, I'm booking the day off work.
On Tuesday, after voting I had to work. My shift starts at noon, and while I'm pulling into the parking lot, I see none other than Mr.Brison himself walking into the building. This in itself isn't out of the ordinary, as he comes in every now and then, but seeing how it was election day while I was going out back to the kitchen I kept my ears open to see what he was saying. Feeling nosey, rather than go to the kitchen right away like I normally do, I just stood behind the counter looking like I was checking the showcase, when in fact I was eavesdropping.
 Now here's  a little piece of advice for everyone: Whenever you have a gathering of some sort, or just feel like eating like an elephant, give Tim Horton's some advance warning so the bakers can get your food ready in advance.
Mr.Brison bought every single timbit of every kind that was made up. When that wasn't enough, he decided to place an order for half an hour later. Twenty forty packs.
Here's where the advice and lesson of the day comes in.  When you forget to let Tim Horton's know in advance that you've got one helluva order you're going to make, the baker will become grumpy. Example: On election day, because Mr. Brison failed to inform us that he was going to feed the entire liberal population of Kings and Hants counties, I had zero timbits for anyone during one of the busiest times of the day, and I couldn't get bread in the oven for people during the lunchtime rush.
The ten dollar tip almost made me feel bad for voting against him, but then whenever I looked at the showcase and saw that I had to spend the next two hours making timbits that feeling faded away quickly.
 
Anyhow, that's the story of my first election day. It doesn't really add a whole lot to the thread, I just found it a bit amusing.

Midget
 
The Beaver said:
My gosh, they actually do that!

Why don't we?

Beav

Belgium does it too.

Provided that it was clearly said that spoiled ballot was still an option, I would agree with a fine for not voting.

In my opinion, voting is a duty.

People that tell me they're not voting because they don't agree with any party can always put in a blank ballot.
 
The incongruous said:
In my opinion, voting is a duty.

Now, that's something that I disagree on. To me, voting is a priviledge. When the voter turnout is as low as it is today, it would be a safe bet to assume that a lot of those people who didn't vote, have no idea what any of the parties are riding on. They would likely end up casting their vote  based on something that they heard, like "Harper is Bush's puppet."  If someone with next to zero knowledge of Canadian politics/parties is forced to vote, they'll vote for what sounds good on the outside without bothering to read between the lines or look on the inside. And you know, the greens and NDP would just love that (even though their official stance would be against it).
Just my 2 pennies, anyhow.

Midget
 
Look at it this way, have you folks that are advocating fines stopped to consider that these people are also exercising their rights/privilege as well by remaining silent? Silence is telling in itself. Some people just don't care either way who is elected and who isn't. and I find this attitude more and more prevalent with a lot of my peers. If you advocate fines then I ask you this; do you feel members of the CF should suffer disciplinary action as well if they did not vote?
 
uncle-midget-boyd said:
Now, that's something that I disagree on. To me, voting is a privilege. When the voter turnout is as low as it is today, it would be a safe bet to assume that a lot of those people who didn't vote, have no idea what any of the parties are riding on. They would likely end up casting their vote based on something that they heard, like "Harper is Bush's puppet."  If someone with next to zero knowledge of Canadian politics/parties is forced to vote, they'll vote for what sounds good on the outside without bothering to read between the lines or look on the inside. And you know, the greens and NDP would just love that (even though their official stance would be against it).
Just my 2 pennies, anyhow. Midget

Democracy is built on the participation of the population. When the population stop participating in the selection of their government, they relinquish their rights. First by the manipulation of the populous by well meaning but controlling officials, then by less scrupulous members that realize that if the population is told certain things they will accept them.  Laws get changed to give more and more power to the officials, finally resulting in the population being totally controlled by the officials, with no recourse to removing the officials from office.

Still think your vote does not count? It is your duty to give new blood to the democracy by voting, it is not someones right to give you the privilege.

 
Our democracy relies on the people expressing their desires about who should represent them in government. Not voting destroys that. Compulsory voting also gets rid of all the voter registration drives and get out the vote efforts. Both of which are huge wastes of time and money.

Myself I do not like the volatility that changes in voter turnout can have on election outcomes. Voter turnout can be too easily increased by massive spending, which I think corrupts the process.
 
Does anyone else think that democracy and "compulsory" or "forced" voting don't seem to go together? Like that old Sesame Street tune..."One of these things is not like the others..."  ;)
 
Celticgirl said:
Does anyone else think that democracy and "compulsory" or "forced" voting don't seem to go together? Like that old Sesame Street tune..."One of these things is not like the others..."  ;)

There is lots of compulsion and forcing in a democracy. Every law is a compulsion to act or not act in a some way. The basics of democracy is the people get a say in how they are governed. Some argue (like I do) that compulsory voting would strengthen the connection between those that govern and the people.
 
While I think everyoe SHOULD vote, I don't agree with MAKING them vote.  

If people have no desire to vote, then they take what they get, and I've heard many people on radio shows, and on the news, etc state they didn't see anyone worth voting for, or they didn't think it would matter as they are all pretty much the same.

Forcing people to vote does NOT address the real issue of why they have no desire to vote.

And..do you really want people showing up to vote who will just pick a candidate and vote for them?  Myself, I'll take the results from the ones who go of their own free will over an additional 41% of people who just go to save themselves a fine, as they are not likely to vote "seriously" and what happens when some shitp**p gets voted in when the mass of forced voters all band together in a Facebook group and agree to vote for some smuck??  And don't think that is such a ridiculous example, it would likely happen.

Nope, forced voting is too dangerous to introduce IMO.

 
If you force people to vote, you'll have a false election. Those forced to vote will spoil ballots and vote opposite their heart and gut to prove their point and hit back at athourity. Next thing you've got is a party in power that NOBODY really wanted, and NO ONE can figure how they got there. Power should be decided by those with interest and those that come out. The parties that motivate their people get the votes, proven by this election. The rest can pound salt and decide, if four years later, they want to step up and make a difference. I don't think I've ever voted for a local rep that's won. However, I've not missed a vote, municipal, provincial or federal, since I became of age.

You can be a driver or a passenger. Drivers get to determine how you're getting there. Passengers are along for the ride with no say whether you get there safely, or you crash and burn.

I don't want disinterested knobs, joints or diseffected arseholes determining which way my country is heading. We have enough of those elected and making the decisions already.
 
Unfortunately, this is too true in the current era of "I know my rights, me first" Canada. I don't imagine that there are too many false elections in Australia because people are accustomed to the requirement to vote. Regardless, I'm at a loss to suggest how we improve voter turnout.
 
DBA said:
Some argue (like I do) that compulsory voting would strengthen the connection between those that govern and the people.

I disagree. I think that we should encourage people to vote but not force them to vote. Part of the problem is that many Canadians don't recognize what a privilege it is to vote in this country, and how there are many people who do not enjoy that same privilege in their own countries. However, I think that forcing them to vote would not drive this point home. In fact, it would make people feel that their rights are being violated in some way, and as recceguy pointed out, we would end up with a false election with results based on the voting of an angry, resentful public.
 
The right not to vote has actually been discussed here. I would side with the people who say you should not force electors to vote, for many of the same reasons we are against conscripting people to serve in the Armed Forces. The word "Idiot" is derived from an ancient Greek word reffering to a person who refused to participate in the assembly; the ancient Greeks felt they were contemptable individuals for refusing to contribute or allowing others to decide for them.

If the problem is engagement, then perhaps you should consider joining a political party or advocacy group and start engaging with people. I suspect one of the reasons for low engagement and turnout is the very limited scale and scope of the discussion in the MSM, aided and abetted by the parties themselves (see the "gag law" as a prime example). Think of how many political ideas never see the light of day because of this filtration mechanism. During this election, how much discussion of the Christian Heritage Party's did you hear? How about the Canadian Action Party? The Libertarian Party? The Progressive Canadians? The Communist Party of Canada?

Sure, most of these parties only appeal to a limited number of people today, but they cover a far broader range of the political landscape than the "Progressive" troika of the Greens, NDP and Liberals, and the centerist CPC. If more people are aware of the choicesopen to them, then maybe more people would exercise these choices. In any free market for any other good, more choices provides more competition and better goods and service. Why should the political market for ideas be any different?

 
Jack Granatstein is right on the money (usual copyright disclaimer):
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=886486

The just-completed election had its interesting moments and its surprises. What it did not have was much policy content. The ongoing American election, by contrast, features candidates debating real policy positions. Sometimes the policies are less than coherent, but at least the American electorate has been granted the opportunity to choose between serious leaders advancing genuine plans.

In the United States, candidates talk about issues such as defence, foreign policy, trade and national security. Not in Canada. This country might be fighting a war in Afghanistan, but up until the very end of the election campaign, the war was barely on the radar. And when Afghanistan finally came up for serious discussion it was only because the Parliamentary Budget Officer produced a cost analysis that seemed to have more what-ifs than one usually finds in accountants' studies.

When it came to defence and foreign policy, none of the Liberal, NDP or Conservative statements offered anything more than platitudes. In a few sentences, the parties revealed that they have no ideas to advance for a department of national defence that spends some $20-billion a year, and nothing beyond bromides to indicate the direction they would follow in acting on the world stage.

Sure, the Liberals and NDP claimed that Stephen Harper was the second coming of George W. Bush, but where was the serious discussion of Canada's relations with our troubled superpower neighbour? There wasn't a whisper about Canada's need to keep the border open, NAFTA or the possibility of water exports.

And what about Canada's relations with NATO, the European community and China and India? Canada's political and economic future lies in working out a policy to deal with a changing world order, yet no party leader saw fit to say anything about these subjects.

Nor did the war on terror make it into the election discourse. All parties apparently were too sensitive to speak about how Canada should deal with militant Islam or the Tamil Tigers, let alone our own anti-terror laws.

...If Canada were a serious country, its party leaders would present policy proposals that sketch out Canada's national interests and advance their ideas for meeting them. They would talk about Canadians' values and how to secure them. They would explain their thoughts on how best to protect us against the threats to our nation.

A serious country deals with the big issues at election time. But in the 2008 election, Canada's politicians did not even try to do so. Instead, the party leaders seemed to follow the words of former prime minister Kim Campbell: Elections, she famously said, are no time to talk about serious issues.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Thucydides said:
During this election, how much discussion of the Christian Heritage Party's did you hear? How about the Canadian Action Party? The Libertarian Party? The Progressive Canadians? The Communist Party of Canada?

Heard plenty from Jack Layton and the NDP. Oops, sorry got them confused with the other communist party again. Easy mistake I guess ;D
 
too bad Jack never decided to move on like Stephane Dion is most likely planning to do.
 
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